We have a couple of guys that moved on to be Career Firefighters, why does their attitude change? They are still on the Volunteer Dept but the dedication is completely gone, this makes me mad as hell, if it werent for the Vol. Dept they would not even be where they are today, we paid for their EMS trianing and their FF1 and FF2, as soon as they start getting paid they are better than the rest of us, they even go as far as threatening to quite saying "I dont need this" or this "this place is a joke" I am not an officer so I just keep my mouth shut I would like to tell them to turn in their stuff cuase they have a bad attitude.

Does anyone else see the same thing??
How would you go about dealing with it?

Thanks
Chris

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Yes! Nothing just support them and continue to be proud of what you do. That's how they started LOL
I am a paid professional firefighter/paramedic that volunteered for 6 years before becoming paid. Here is my thought on this subject.

My experience has been that the training for paid guys far exceeds the training that the volunteers recieve or are willing to recieve. Safety is an issue also. Paid departments are usually governed by an agency that tells them what they can and cannot do. Volunteer depts usually are not controlled except by their chief. I actually quit volunteering when I realized that the same fire that we all fight, was being approached two totally different ways. Paid departments have a very organized and controlled chain of command. There are consequences for not following orders. I came to a realization that I could continue to do the thing I loved and do it safely. NFPA mandates are followed closely when on a paid dept.

As far as attitudes, it's a cultural thing. When you live with other firefighters for a third of your life, you tend to get "cocky". A little any way. When you are at a station, you are available to respond at a moments notice. You also make it to the scene within minutes of the 911 call. You find yourself arriving pre-flashover and dealing with serious heat and smoke prior to the freeburn and decay stage of the fire. These things combined with eachother, tend to make you feel a little "tougher".

Please hear me say this, I do not think being paid is better than volunteering or vise versa. I do believe that the cultures are different. Yeah, it's the fire service, but it's still two different cultures. The truth is it is hard for some to stay involved in both. I think it is unfair for you to attack their willingness and dedication to the job, whether paid or volunteer.

I know that not all have this same experience with these two totally different cultures. I am simply stating what my experience has been.

Stay safe!
wow these vollie vs paid posts never go well.My take on this subject is going to be brief and to the point...

no matter paid or vollie there is always going to be one that knows more than everybody else or thinks that they are god wether they do or not.The point of the fire service is not being career or volunteer or who is a better firefighter me or you.our focus shouldnt be on our fellow brothers(assholes or not) it should be on what our job is.yes there is always going to be drama or little things that piss us off but just ignore these little things and be thankful that you have the blessing to change lives for the better.at the end of the day we all put on our boots the same way with the same purpose...thats why we are a brothehood!stay safe
We have several career guys on our volunteer dept. Only one of them really has an attitute about it and he was hired less then a year ago. All the other career guys have been doing if for awhile. From what I can see, the newly appointed career guys are just excited about being a pro ff. heck, all of us would be!!! I think its something they kinda grow out of.

But yeah.... dont be surprised when this one gets shut down. Cuz it will!!!! Webchief doesnt take kindly to these kinda posts lol
Chris,

Just maybe once someone enters a real full time gig that they see the Vollietics (vollie politics) and other little BS really isn't worth the hassle, so I can see where this attitude comes from. The next question I have for you is your firehouse a joke? Compared to a totally career house where the business is fighting fire, not rubbing backs so your buddy gets to be an officer, not the little kingdom whereas people who are sometimes unqualified hold role whereas people can get killed, not where my blue lightbar is bigger than yours, not where you carry 16 pagers, a portable, and a badge visible at all times.

Your newly anointed paid guys still like to fight fire, and they still have friends at the firehouse. That's why they still come around.
I have seen both sides of this and can understand both points. I am a volunteer, make no bones about it. I think Phillip said it best. It is a difference in cultures. We (volunteers) love what we do just the same, but I am the first to admit that carrer guys train and live in a different world than we do. They are their for a time and off and we are sometimes seemingly on call 24-7. Their are issues that we as volunteers face that a career dept. dont have to deal with, and vice - versa. We don't know what its like to get a call and go straight to the apparatus and go. We have to get to the station, get gear, wait for everyone else etc.....

Point is we all love what we do in the fire service and the fire doesn't care if your paid -on call, full time or volunteer, its gonna burn no matter what.


Just my thoughts
Wow this is still open…..I’ve trained and lost 2 to the paid ranks, which I remind them from time to time and if you are having this problem you may want to look at your own department. Although my 2 are no longer on our dept, I still get them back to help with training once and a while, what a great resource. If you don’t have the same structure as a paid dept, as far as quality of training, amount of training and I’ll give a little flexibility here but of the ones (paid) I know it’s about 2 hours per shift, and command structure, which you should, then I don’t blame them. Just for the record I’m a training officer for a 25 man small town (800) volunteer department.
Its dumb threads like this chris way some paid guys dont go back to the tick house perhaps it is your attitude you have to look at
Look I am both career and was a vollie and I can mabey shed a little light on the subject.

If you look at most career depts they operate a 24 hour shift.....after 24 hours of cleaning, training, making runs, inspections and being away from my wife and kids going to the vollie house is the LAST thing I wanna do.

.....typically at my vollie house you have 3 types of people Career firefighters who vollie, vollies who have tried to be career but cant get hired on, pople who just vollie. I realize that while certain aspects of the job are the same pay check or no but alot of aspects are very very different. Career firefighters are held to a higher standard its just the facts....If I was paiting my house and my neighbor came over and said hey you wnt me to give you a hand and I say sure and he screws up you cant really complain....but If I hired someone to paint my house and they screwed up I would have a reason to get mad.

For example I am held to a uniform standard, I HAVE to clean every shift, I have to PT every shift, I have to train every shift, I have to run every call every shift, I had to pull 4 years befor they would even let me look at the front seat, We run over 7,000 calls a year just on our engine thats not including our Truck or ambulance....how many vollie dept have those type of requirements, not many at best.....these are aspects of the career job that are different than the vollie house that coupled with the expereince level (it would take a guy 3 years to gain as much expereince at the vollie house as I get in one year) and of course your going to have animosity from the career guys.

Additioanlly you have the guys who wanna go paid but havent gotten on yet are mad cause we are all competing for the same jobs and when you lose you get mad I dont care who you are.

I suggest talking to the guys and finding out what is making them mad and why they feel its a joke...I sat down and did a self assesment of why I did not like the vollie system and what I could do to change it....I came up with that nothing I did or could do would matter so I quit.....and I have never been happier, The only time I miss the vollie house is when they have a fire and thats only a few a year and thats only becuase I wanna go to every fire.....good luck
I dont have a problem with them being paid, I just want the guys that I started on the department with to be the same guys that we were back then, yes these guys are very knowledgable and are a great resource to the dept, I am by no means knocking paid guys, I get along with alot of them that are on city fire dept.

I can see some took this the wrong way, I think we will let it die
I am sorry for making anyone upset
we are a Brotherhood and we should act like it again I apologize

Good Day to you all
I didn't intend for my post to sound like I know everything or anything at all. I am a firm believer that the paid departments should be assisting the volunteer departments with training and education. I know as a PROFESSIONAL (and that goes both paid and volunteer) that I am a life long student of change and adaptation.

I agree this is a brotherhood. I was simply responding to Chris in his original post when asked about why attitudes change. And you are right, these type of posts are not good for anyone.

Have a safe and happy weekend brothers!
"VOLUNTEER:
Just anybody can join, many are whackers that want to look important but are some of the bumbest moorons who walk the face of the planet, there's back stabbing and limited disciplin because members votes at election time are more important than the right actions, everybody wants to be an officer yet they'll never be more than a go getter, there's always somebody that wants to cry about the stupidest crap, fund-raising is vital but takes a toll on the members, the 2nd due company is 10 miles away because the chief officer doesn't like the fire department 1/2 mile away, and there's so much BS that goes on with the vol. fire service.
" Wow you just summed up our dept. and the whole county. I take it we are not alone in this then??

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