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SCBA on the Roof?
Below are a series of photos courtesy "FirehouseGuy" from theWatchDesk.com from a daytime house fire last week in Maryland.
These photos are circulating around the Web on sites such as Firefighter Close Calls on the aspect of firefighter safety ... with the site noting "No one hurt but good pictures from the scene drawing "THINK" attention to PPE, SCBA and roof operations. While we love roof operations when needed, we are don't love un-needed exposure to the smoke -- today's smoke is some nasty crap.....we need to THINK. 1000 active Firefighters die each year to cancer."
What are your thoughts and your department's SOPs for firefighters operating on the roof of structure firefighters?
These photos are circulating around the Web on sites such as Firefighter Close Calls on the aspect of firefighter safety ... with the site noting "No one hurt but good pictures from the scene drawing "THINK" attention to PPE, SCBA and roof operations. While we love roof operations when needed, we are don't love un-needed exposure to the smoke -- today's smoke is some nasty crap.....we need to THINK. 1000 active Firefighters die each year to cancer."
What are your thoughts and your department's SOPs for firefighters operating on the roof of structure firefighters?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Took her mask off during training?
Two words: Rachel Wilson.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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In all the talk here about the poor ladder placement, has nobody else noticed that the person who placed the ladder must have been following department proceedure? After all, the other ladder, to the upstairs window, is on the same angle... Wrong ladder selection followed by extremely poor ladder placement. Then again, at least they're not damaging the flowerbeds with their ladders!
Oh, the guy on the roof? He didn't need BA on because he shouldn't have been up there in the first place! Those photos are good for the 'how not to do things' folder.
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Permalink Reply by marktheemt on
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There is definatley no reason for anyone to be opeating in a smoke condition area without a SCBA Vol. or PAID. No one needs to swallow all that smoke and get sick. We are trying to help and protect others. Who is going to fight all the fires if we get sick from swaloing to much smoke !.
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Permalink Reply by Captain Kevin C. Ross on
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I don't know about anyone else but this is an everyday occurrence, and as long as we have people in officer position that let it happen, and do it themselves it will continue. It should never happen but everyday I see people at fires, MVA's, etc not properly dressed for the call, no turnout gear, partial turnout gear, no SCBA's, etc. and most of the time it is not only firefighters, but officers & chief officers who also do not have gear on, I asked a couple of chief's at different scenes why they did not have gear on and they told me they did not have time to put it on. I have also seen county coordinators not wearing gear. As long as you have the officer's not properly dressed, you will have firefighters not properly dressed & how do you tell someone its ok if I don't wear gear, but its not ok if you don't wear gear. By the way paid or volunteer it does not matter I have seen both doing the same thing.
Did anyone else notice the guy in the last picture with no turnout gear on pulling hose on the front lawn? I say make every Firefighter, Fire Officer, & Fire Chief dress properly full turnout gear with SCBA, because I have seen many of the chief enter buildings without SCBA's. OK now I can get down off my soapbox. Have A Great Day! Stay Safe! & Don't Forget Train, Train, Train, & Wear your full turnout gear including SCBA!
Capt. Kevin C. Ross Pembroke, NY Fire Department
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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If you fall into the water wearing turnout gear and SCBA, as long as you keep your facepiece seal intact, you'll float. Just stay on your back, don't move around a lot, and keep your facepiece on. Keep your boots on, too. They'll trap air and help keep air trapped in your bunker pants. Even if the mask is submerged and goes into free-flow, you'll have around 10 minutes of air with a 4500 psi, 45-minute cylinder if it's full when you hit the drink. Even when out of air, the cylinder is a pretty good floatation device.
The only exceptions to this I know of are in swiftwater/whitewater or in breaking waves in the ocean.
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Art,
Not all training is created equal. Rookies should have plenty of non-IDLH SCBA training prior to going IDLH so that if they have problems with wearing a mask, air consumption monitoring, etc they can get used to it in a place that won't kill them if they panic.
Ripping the mask off during IDLH training like live burns is another issue completely.
Rachel Wilson ripping her mask off was only one part of a chain of circumstances that killed her. A NFPA 1403-compliant burn would probably not have killed her, regardless of what other issues were present.
Ben
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Shutting a firefighter's air supply in training should only be done as part of a survival course, and after teaching the firefighter what to do for a loss-of-air emergency. Just ambushing a new firefighter doesn't accomplish anything except intimidation.
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Permalink Reply by roy yoder on
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cannon
glad to know it was dealt with and no one got hurt minus feelings. looks like the fire started in the made over garage and moved to the attic. the first picture of side da shows no smoke from the windows or roof with a ladder placed thru the second story window, maybe some from the peak of side a second story. the pitcures show a attic fire in the single story and an aggresive attack with BA's thru the front door and pulling the ceiling would have kept the man off the roof and saved the house on the two story side. if the window would not have been taken on the second floor then ppv could have been used to aid the attack. you have to look at what tools you have in your tool box and try to keep up with the new ones. BUT EITHER WAY SAFTEY IS FIRST OUT OF THE BOX AND THE LAST TO GO BACK IN THE BOX. not trying to bash anybody because we have MURPHY and GRANNY GRUNTS alive and well here as well. remember the way you train is the way you will fight. so don't piss and moan when the trainer tells you to pack up to advance hose at training. i hope you get my drift, if the pitcures are your tatics and there is no life then may i suggest surround and drown
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Permalink Reply by Todd on
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Well out procedure is if there is smoke and toxic gases then the mask stays on..EVEN in overhaul, we have several departments that come to our town for fires that dont do this, and our saftey officer will tell operations to make them guys put there mask on...
Why risk your future..
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In my opinion he shouldn't even be on that roof. But since he is then he should definately have an SCBA on.
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Permalink Reply by Dustin J. Millis on
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Willie, I definatly agree. First off... the type of dept. should not have anything to do with the way that fire is faught. (although many times it does). The closest station location doesnt have anything to do with this. And most importantly, if that dept, or any dept. for that matter; is running their 1st due apparatus without SCBA, thats a dept. I will not be on!!! There are as many SCBA's as their are seats on every piece of apparatus on my dept, including the tankers
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