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SCBA on the Roof?
Below are a series of photos courtesy "FirehouseGuy" from theWatchDesk.com from a daytime house fire last week in Maryland.
These photos are circulating around the Web on sites such as Firefighter Close Calls on the aspect of firefighter safety ... with the site noting "No one hurt but good pictures from the scene drawing "THINK" attention to PPE, SCBA and roof operations. While we love roof operations when needed, we are don't love un-needed exposure to the smoke -- today's smoke is some nasty crap.....we need to THINK. 1000 active Firefighters die each year to cancer."
What are your thoughts and your department's SOPs for firefighters operating on the roof of structure firefighters?
These photos are circulating around the Web on sites such as Firefighter Close Calls on the aspect of firefighter safety ... with the site noting "No one hurt but good pictures from the scene drawing "THINK" attention to PPE, SCBA and roof operations. While we love roof operations when needed, we are don't love un-needed exposure to the smoke -- today's smoke is some nasty crap.....we need to THINK. 1000 active Firefighters die each year to cancer."
What are your thoughts and your department's SOPs for firefighters operating on the roof of structure firefighters?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Vogel on
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No Excuses and No reason to be on the Roof without SCBA
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Permalink Reply by Jason Jackson on
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As part of a ladder company I am am directly involved with roof operations, and ventilation. As I see it the fire has laready vented itself. the firefighter shouldn't have been up there in the first place. As far as the scba goes, ANY TIME YOU ARE IN THE VENTALATION PROCESS IT SHOULD BE ON. When you make the hole you are doing it to give heat and gases someplace to go besides on your interior crews. This means you are not going to be able to avoid direct contact to these super heated gasses and most of the time flames. This is not a paid or volunteer thing because i am a vol. but even i know better. If im in the seat and see this from one of my guys or my Lt. is in the seat that guy would be sent to man rehab because he obviously can't play with the big boys.
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Permalink Reply by Vince Curry on
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That is just stupidity at its best . That guy should have even gotten on the roof without a airpack on .
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Permalink Reply by randym on
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Not only does he not have on a SCBA , but he shouldn't even be up there. The section of the house he's on is already gutted and flames showing through the roof . The roof is obviously to unstable for someone to be up there, and if you are going to be up on a roof in that condition, you should be on the ladder or have a roof ladder in place. You can see how far he is working away from the one ladder you can see set up, and you can see the saw is a lot farther than that, so he is going way to far away from his escape route. A lot of things wrong with this picture. We all do stupid things when we feel that the situation calls for it, but this isn't one of the times it looks like you would do that.
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To add to what i said, The ladder placement needs to be reviewed as well as they are missing a few. Does this dept. have a ladder company because if so the officer on this truck needs to be repermanded. His crew is not properly trained to do their jobs. I am on a combination dept. with one engine company staffed at all times with three men, a Chief on duty, We have about 20 vols. that show up on a regular basies. We have SOPs that we go by that say Ladder each side front and back on opposite ends, (if possible not feasable in a high rise ) of the structure on each floor except the first floor. when dooing roof ops. 2 ladders one on each end min. 3 rungs above the roof line for visability under smokeey conditions, Roof ladder with at least one foot on it, sound roof before steping. scbas for interior and vent crews. Hose line standing by vent crew min. 2 people (even if you are just placing a fan.) This is obviously a dept. that doesn't spend there trainning time very wisely weither they are paid or vol.
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Permalink Reply by Phil on
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suspend?..... T.J... its people like you, that are the reason for dwindling numbers and lower morale. You dont suspend someone for that. They made it off the roof, Just have a sit down talk with the guy.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Phil,
I'm not sure that T.J. and people like him are the reason for dwindling numbers of vollies.
The realities of modern life, Generation Y expectations, the reduced number of fires, increased economic pressure, and the increased difficulty and expense it takes to become a qualified interior firefighter have a lot more to do with it.
There's nothing wrong with having a talk...if that talk includes a thorough examination of how inappropriate that roof work was and why.
On the other hand, if department SOGs were violated, then a suspension for the firefighter and the officer(s) that either assigned him or let him go up there with all of the obvious safety problems involved very well might be appropriate.
It's less risky for a department to suspend one firefighter for safety violations than to let it go and continue the potential for a LODD or serious LOD injury.
Ben
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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I'm on this one too. She took her mask off during training? She'd take her mask off in a fire if she ran out of air? We're trained to watch our air pressure. We train to get out of a building before our low air warning goes off. Unless that 'rookie' has now been taught properly, and has the correct attitude, I'm glad she'll never be on a job with me.
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Repetitive training with a blacked-out facepiece or in a room filled with artificial smoke (disco fog) can help this rookie learn the right procedures. That can fix a lot of rookie mistakes - just don't use an IDLH atmosphere for the training.
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Somebody turns off my air he will probably be eating a knuckle sandwich. That sort of idea teaches nothing. I've had trainers come up to me, cover my guage and ask me how much I had left. That's how you find out if a person is keeping track. Let's face it, if she, or anyone, pulls off their mask in a fire because they've run out of air just how long are they going to live? Cooked lungs are not my idea of a good lunch.
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Permalink Reply by Cody W. Nelson on
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The guy on the roof is more than likely the same fellow who insists on not wearing his seatbelt while riding aparatus. The old mentality of "that's not the way we have always done it," is more than likely his motto.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Phil;
What you see in the pictures is not a little "oops".
It is a major breach of proper size up, roof ops, federal law, NFPA standards and common sense.
I'm sure that the number of LODDs and serious injuries that we are experiencing every year has nothing to do with dwindling numbers.
But I agree with you that that kind of stupidity on the fire ground will definitely lower morale and raise the body count.
His ass needs to go to a time out and if he does something that stupid again, he needs to get out.
And if I am his chief, I will gladly take your blame for dwindling numbers and lower morale.
He and I will be alive to live with it.
TCSS.
Art
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