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If this post is already in firefighter nation please share the title so I can take a look. I was not able to find anything while searching past forums.
This has kind of bugging me for awhile. Now I dont know if this is just a east coast thing from New Hamshire to Virginia or if it happens all over the country (never traveled much). But I drive through these downs everynow and then and all of a sudden I have a fire truck or an ambulance coming up behind me quick, lights shining but no siren. Companies coming up to intersections maybe 15 feet before them then they turn on a siren. Shouldnt it be if your lights are on and your going to a call you should have the siren going whether its 1 oclock in the afternoon or 3 in the morning. I mean because if firefighters get in an accident or someone doesnt pull over for them in the day time they complain that the person couldnt see or hear the fire truck coming. But at night what happens? These fire trucks going all out to calls late at night with just lights going through intersections and past cross streets without any sound at all.
Just want to find out what other peoples thoughts on this are.
Should we listen to towns people when they complain that our lights and sirens woke them up at 3 am and the chief decides that we cant run with our lights going or does your department just say screw it and turn it all on for your safety and everyone elses on the road?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sparky3317 on
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John, I understand that sirens in itself dont prevent the accidents. But if you get into an accident and your sirens are not on and it is the law in your state to run with lights and sirens its still your job on the line.
Driving defensively is the key.
Stay Safe.
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Ralph, did you have enough coffee this morning your capitalizing things again (thought we chatted about that).
And its not usually the siren whankers or the goob/dipchit/dumbass that are driving (those are the guys in the passenger seats, they are called officers). I dont understand driving like a retard just because the sirens are on thats just stupid. But knowing the drivers Ive been with and worked with we will definately run sirens to a 3 am call because again its our jobs on the line if something happens. But just because we are running our sirens doesnt mean tthat we drive like idiots doing it.
If you and your driver, or you as the driver dont feel like you can still drive safely with the sirens on then I think you are the siren whankers, and definately need a new evoc course to retrain in driving safely.
Remember people who are considered whankers or wackers are the ones that get to excited over something. Just because we are running our sirens doesnt make us whankers if you can do it safely.
So Ralph lets have another cup of coffee and lets bring it down a notch. No one is trying to upset one another with these posts everyone has their own opinion, which again theres no need to captailize it. State it and move on.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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It's powered by a GE F404 jet engine with afterburner.. the same engine as in the Navy's F/A 18 Super Hornet!
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Ralph.. are you referring to the apparatus crash in Framingham, MA? I live in the area, and know a few Framingham jakes, including one who was in the accident. He got a little banged up, but is okay.
They were returning from a "smoke in the building" call and not in an emergency mode. The rig was a Pierce Quantum, if I recall correctly, it was equipped with All Steer when delivered. After an incident in Natick MA, when the "all steer" drove the ass end of a Pierce Quantum chassised aerial into a tree, Pierce came out with a TSB about locking the all steer.
One of the things they are looking at is if the all steer lockout malfunctioned.
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Use of lights and siren should be based on common sense and based on the conditions, whether it be traffic, time of day, weather, etc.
There have been times where I have just had the lights on and people pull right over... activate the siren, they turn into "instant idiot" and do stupid things that cause accidents.
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Ron, was that engine 3 that got in the accident? I heard about the crash but didnt hear what company it was. I believe 3,7, and 5 are all Quantum engines and I believe 1 and 3 are the only two ladder companies but not 100% sure.
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Permalink Reply by Raymond Herington on
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Good point Ralph, I do have lights and siren on my POV, but I fail to remember I live 2 blocks from hall, they rarely get used.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Should we listen to the towns people?
Even in broad daylight, there is a risk involved with driving Code 3 (lights & sirens)... Risk vs. Benefit...
If your Chief does not have the quevos to back you up, then you've got some serious problems here beyond this issue of lights and siren usage. There cannot be any other appropriate and legal decision for your departments personnel to do other than follow safe emergency response practices, but instead, under the direction of your Fire Chief, you will be told to bend to the whims of the towns people... Just make sure to get it in writing so you can have Exhibit A for your court deposition where you are asked why were you not driving with emergency warning devices when you went through the intersection that resulted in an accident. And accidents do and will continue to happen... again, even in broad daylight!
Department Liability Issues: You might want to ask whether or not the Fire Chief has personal liability insurance. An injured or killed firefighters wife will not share the same sentiments as others. No one can be naive enough to believe that for every action there is not a reaction. Forcing people to not follow common sense response practices is a slam dunk should someone get hurt in the process.
• Does your cities legal beagles know of this policy?
• How much would be awarded to surviving firefighters families should a fatal accident occur?
• Do you think it would have an effect on the economy of your city or jurisdiction?
And the Fire Chief... there's a good chance that he's history. I hope he figures this out before it's too late.
Personal Liability Issues: If you are driving a fire engine, responding to a call, not using lights and sirens and you hit someone, again, don't be naive to think that your personal automobile insurance won't be affected. You were involved in a motor vehicle accident and you were driving. If someone is injured or killed in the process, where will your chief or the towns people be when you are explaining in court why you didn't follow the rules. Again, Risk vs. Benefit.
Always err on the side of safety... When in doubt, follow the rules.
TCSS,
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Anita King on
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In Virginia, EVOC states lights on , sirens on. However, lights and sirens do not replace the use of wisdom and common sense. Lights and sirens don't cause or prevent accidents, people do.
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Adrenaline is a terrible thing for firefighters, I try to teach my guys to relax and use your brain. I have an issue with guys on my dept. driving through town to fast, lights and siren blarin, as any dept. Sad thing is when some thing happens it falls on mine and the chiefs shoulders. Cant sit in town and wait for guys to drive through to see how they are driving.
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That was Engine 7 in the accident.. another thing that the FFD, Pierce and the State Police accident recon team is looking at is a snapped axle.
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Just today... and all while responding code 3 to calls...
Our Engine 2 almost got broadsided coming out of their station by an idiot on a cell phone who turned the corner without looking.
The Rescue almost got sideswiped by another moron who crossed the double yellow line while yakking on a cell phone.
Car 2 ( my assigned FD vehicle) was cut off by a jerk who decided to take advantage of the green light provided by the Opticon.. the only problem was.. he was the third car in the line of traffic stopped at the red arrow... he pulled right out in front of me!
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