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PTSD - Any Effective Lay Interventions?
This morning I ran into the wife of a long-time friend whom I haven't seen in a while. We have been friends for more than 20 years and he was my partner when we were on the rescue. Now he has started shutting himself off from others, is drinking and is seeing "dead people" and having nightmares. Classic PTSD.
It stems from a couple of calls about 12 years ago. In the first one, he worked a man pinned below a rolled truck. The man had rolled the truck the night before and was pinned underneath all night. He was conscious and lucid when we arrived on scene. Took an hour to rig the lines to lift the truck and my partner was attending the pt during that time. As expected, when the truck was finally lifted, the guy cored. We got him back a couple of times en route to the helicopter, and they got him back a few times during the flight, but in the end he passed. A few months later, we lost a 17 year old girl in a freak alcohol-involved MVA. She wasn't driving and hadn't been drinking.
Both incidents were followed by CIS debriefs but my buddy is one of those who will not open-up to anyone, much less a group. I kept a careful eye on him over the years but, with a few slips, I thought he was coping pretty well. Now I know he wasn't and isn't. Does anybody know of effective interventions for PTSD that can be implemented by a lay person?
It stems from a couple of calls about 12 years ago. In the first one, he worked a man pinned below a rolled truck. The man had rolled the truck the night before and was pinned underneath all night. He was conscious and lucid when we arrived on scene. Took an hour to rig the lines to lift the truck and my partner was attending the pt during that time. As expected, when the truck was finally lifted, the guy cored. We got him back a couple of times en route to the helicopter, and they got him back a few times during the flight, but in the end he passed. A few months later, we lost a 17 year old girl in a freak alcohol-involved MVA. She wasn't driving and hadn't been drinking.
Both incidents were followed by CIS debriefs but my buddy is one of those who will not open-up to anyone, much less a group. I kept a careful eye on him over the years but, with a few slips, I thought he was coping pretty well. Now I know he wasn't and isn't. Does anybody know of effective interventions for PTSD that can be implemented by a lay person?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by timothy fento on
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well old fireguy i have ptsd not from fighting fire but fom being combat in iraq and yes excessive drinking is part of the simptoms and if you go to the web site www.webmd.com you can look up everything you need to kow about it
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Permalink Reply by Old Fireguy on
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Thanks timothy fento, I have already been there. I was hoping for some specific strategies and/or success stories that might be applicable. Your input is appreciated and I wish you the best.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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There was a thread awhile back on here regarding CISD's and there was some different input. In this case I doubt there is really much any "lay" person can do and this should be something that a professional may have to intervene. If there is an access to something like EAP (employee assistance program) etc, I would contact them. Otherwise find out if the dept partners with a professional organization in mental health.
Trying to get the person to talk and open up may really do more harm than good right now, best intervention would probably be professional.
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Permalink Reply by doug wehner on
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all i can say is to tell ur friend that ur gonna b there for him if he ever needs anything. and u need to remind him ur not gonna criticise what he hast to say. thats what ur brother f/f r there for. we hav all seen bad things and we can always count on the guys at the firehose to understand and b there for us.
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Permalink Reply by Padre Pete on
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Dear Oldie and Goodie,
My prayers are with you and with your friend. I spent a lot of years with the county CISM team. We parted friends but I felt the need to shake loose. Now I've spent even more time as a lay fire chaplain. Only once have I been challenged by someone who felt I should not be trying to counsel victims. I dont. I limit my activity to consoling. When I see that line needs to be crossed I back off and help them find professional assistance. We can offer our companionship, our time, our table and our assurance, but, we can not get so mired in others lives to the point we are no longer functional to the rest. You are needed on the surface. Greater depths require special gear. Keep The Faith Friend. Pete
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Permalink Reply by Shannon H. Pennington on
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CIS is a bridge to start the process. The new shift is to direct psychological support by a qualified care giver. Your his friend...the intervention has already started...he is "buddied up for close support"....he trusts you...so...see if the two of you can go to West Coast Post Trauma Retreat...him as your partner you as his friend.....he takes the treatment and you do the outer peer support for the week you both are in session.....It is 24 hrs a day 5 days a week equal to 5 years of intensive psychological debrief.......Peer to Peer with 7 psychologists doing the testing and the peers staying one to one....the information is kept so that the individual reads everything written....no info back to the home dept if the person does not want it....check out the web site firefighterveteran.com and the articles on ptsd......as well as the links located on the front right side to west coast post trauma....project F.I.R.S.T. S.T.E.P. H.O.P.E. is real. Also check out the fallen firefighter foundation in Emitsberg Md and the program "EveryOneGoesHome" and the 16 firefighter life safety initiatives including section 13....and the article in their newsletter archive for October of 2008 on mental health and wellness. Your tag for the big IT.....we partner up with the two in two out....he expects that......ptsd kills and wounds......take the challenge and lead your brother through the Emotional Smoke Sweat and Fears of PTSD. When his emotional back draft takes place buddy up for close support and get down low to get the help.....been there done that have complex ptsd to go with it.....I did my time and when the time did me...I got the help from the Vietnam Veterans of America....awesome dude by the name of Bob Collins...who is a viet vet.....and ex Airborne 101st all the way.......saved my life...and here we are...
Key in to google search: shannon pennington ptsd
Also North American Fire Fighter Veterans Network on google
take care of eachother.....we do that for the civilians lets do it for ourselves....
Shannon H. Pennington ptsd firefighterveteran
EX IAFF career firefighter 26 years....
living with ptsd for ten years and beyond....
the help is there...you can do it...
give me an email if you want more information but the web site does it best...
firefighterveteran@hotmail.com
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p.s....your friend senses the danger here. He has been into the center of the fire and understands his instincts......yes they are there and they can keep him alive.....if he reports to eafp he may end his career.....they tend to want you out when your head is not rite.....so...he needs to open up the inch and a half between his head and his heart.....and reduce some of the emotional back pressure...your there with him on the nozzle end of this thing....he needs to find a way to get back the back pressure and take the load off ..... he and you can do this....and keep it private without blowing the 5inch and interrupting his economic supply line to the job.....
He also may want to have you with him as a competent advocate no matter what or where this thing takes him........If we abandon eachother in the time that ptsd strikes us....we are leaving our wounded in the fire......the emotional fire that ptsd is....do you get that? Walking the walk and talking the talk....the remfs know the way to do that well.....we are rubber boot warriors and we have our wounded to carry....we can do this for him.....your on the front lines bro....
open up the hydrant of knowledge that is there by going to the internet and find the help.....
shannon
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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hey Old fireguy. My only suggestion is professional counselling. I'm not sure that anything else would work. Are we really able to deal with the effects of PTSD on our own? I too believe that I suffer from it, stemming from prolonged stress due to work issues and a call or two that happened in quick succession (during the other stress issues). I deal with it day to day, as some days I feel no ill effects, some days I feel greatly stressed for no reason and other days I literally feel nothing at all. I know I should speak to someone professionally, but to get the ball rolling is tough. I am not in the same position as your friend, so I assume it is even tougher for him to reach out seeing as he has been dealing with it for such a long time (although, I thank you, as I believe the sooner I speak to someone the better).
Your friend needs to find someone to talk to, someone outside the service who doesn't automatically assume to know what he's going through, but will try to understand and talk him through it. His life may depend on it. Stick with him, good friends are hard to come by sometimes when the going gets tough.
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....add sleep medication, fish oil for brain work......yes over the counter.....private psych services.....go to local vietnam veterans and ask them for help...they have the knowledge and understanding....he needs rest.....the booze is a form of self medication to numb the ptsd pain....he needs good temporary medication but above all......rest....quiet and supervision....so....i know i am very persistant...but the help is there...the question is...does he want to live or die....you need to ask him and offer him a way out...but....do not loose yourself......
I am in communcation with a firefighterveterans wife . He committed suicide by knifing himself in the chest 5 times and tried to take her out as well....This is a need to fall back to a re enforced position in defensive tactics before you go on the offensive to help him.....he is truly hurting and lost with the trauma trunk of memories and body parts that have spilled over.......delay'd complex ptsd.....
shannon
North American Fire Fighter Veterans Network
firefighterveteran.com
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Thanks Guys. I am working to assimilate and process. I will post pertinent updates as they unfold.
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Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on
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compounding factorrs can lead to similar outcomes
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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"It stems from a couple of calls about 12 years ago" Sorry, but is a lot more complex than that. It stems from the conglomeration of calls, scenes, or activities over the years, the repetitiveness of many similar battles (scenes) along with their outcomes. The "couple of calls" are the ones most vividly remembered, the tip of the iceberg, if you will. It builds up over time, and it will take time to overcome. Unfortunately, sometimes it cannot be overcome.
I had a friend many years ago that would have flash backs, barricade himself in his house because he was back "in country" surrounded by "Charlie." I was usually able to talk him back and diffuse that individual crisis. But the process repeated itself time and time again. Professional intervention and medication helped some, but it ended with a single shot one night when I couldn't connect with him. My point is, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it.
It sounds like your friend has progressed well past the point of "lay person" help. You can support him by being a friend, and listen if he should want to open up. But just based on your post, it sounds to me like you are doing all you can do, by just being there.
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