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Old Timers
damnthing's post left me thinking and that is a bad thing...
So my uncle and mentor in the fire service retired from the department I grew up in a little over 2 years ago.
When I was not old enough to climb up on the tailboard without a boost, my Uncle Rick was a firefighter.
He wasn't a "career" firefighter as we know them, but he was a career volunteer. I cant remember a holiday that he didn't rush out the door to a call somewhere in our small town, and that was pretty cool to me.
By the time I was old enough to join, as a junior in 1983, Rick had been on that department 14 years and was an Asst. Chief.
Now, I didn't want to join at 16, but it was a family thing and so as not to dissapoint, I joined.
I did everything I could to get out of Monday night meetings, but usually Rick would just give me that look and off I would go. Most nights it meant rolling hose, or replacing the sooty stuff with the ones drying on the stairwell. (You really need the visual to understand) So, while I was trying to get out of going, I cant remember a meeting in all those years that Rick missed, unless he was at College Station for training, or in the hospital dealing with the Crones issues that made his legs look like pepperoni pizzas.
Rick, never missed a meeting, a call, or a fund raiser in all the years I was growing up, and when I made the leap to a paid department, he was the one who shook my hand and said "make us proud". Us was the volunteer fire service...
My uncle continued to do this until 2007 when he retired with almost 38 years in Aledo VFD.
In the last years his department had changed drastically, along with the town I grew up in. Aledo was no longer a 600 resident town, it was now 10 times that and encroachment from Ft Worth will soon make it just another suburb, surrounded by the big city.
I wish that was all that had changed, but it wasn't. The department has grown to the point of adding a second station. The department has many paramedics and almost all firefighters are EMT's and if not certified, at least trained to the point of competency. The department is a good one and the envy of every other department in the county, but...
I returned to Aledo in late 2005 and rejoined the department I left at 21. Few of the members even knew who I was other than Old Rick's nephew. The fact that I had more seniority in that department then most of the young certified guys escaped most but the few older ones.
I was just the down on his luck guy that rick brought with him to meetings.
Rick knew his limitations and when we had a major accident, he would show up with his pickup and red lights, block the stretch of road and wave a flare to warn motorists to slow down. He didn't attempt to get in the middle of an extrication, or tell anyone how to do their jobs, but he was there.
When I would sit around talking to some of the old hats, I would hear young guys asking why that old man still came around. What good was he? Was he even certified?
This is where I have an issue.
Our old timers are good for the department. Good for the new or young firefighters who learn the history from, to understand where the department came from to reach this point.
Rick knew he wasn't capable of fighting fire anymore, but he also felt a sense of camaraderie with every firefighter in that department, no matter what they thought of him.
When Rick chose to retire in 2007, he was given a wonderful AXE and a nice speech from the Chief who grew up learning from his as I had.
So...do 60 or 70 or 80 year old members need to be fighting fires or riding the apparatus...no. It isn't safe for them or others.
But, they do have a place in our houses.
We have to treat the pillars of our fire service with respect and dignity. These are the ones who sweated and bled for the towns we live in, years before we were even alive. to treat them like tottering old fools is an insult to not only the older firefighters, but the brotherhood as well.
So my uncle and mentor in the fire service retired from the department I grew up in a little over 2 years ago.
When I was not old enough to climb up on the tailboard without a boost, my Uncle Rick was a firefighter.
He wasn't a "career" firefighter as we know them, but he was a career volunteer. I cant remember a holiday that he didn't rush out the door to a call somewhere in our small town, and that was pretty cool to me.
By the time I was old enough to join, as a junior in 1983, Rick had been on that department 14 years and was an Asst. Chief.
Now, I didn't want to join at 16, but it was a family thing and so as not to dissapoint, I joined.
I did everything I could to get out of Monday night meetings, but usually Rick would just give me that look and off I would go. Most nights it meant rolling hose, or replacing the sooty stuff with the ones drying on the stairwell. (You really need the visual to understand) So, while I was trying to get out of going, I cant remember a meeting in all those years that Rick missed, unless he was at College Station for training, or in the hospital dealing with the Crones issues that made his legs look like pepperoni pizzas.
Rick, never missed a meeting, a call, or a fund raiser in all the years I was growing up, and when I made the leap to a paid department, he was the one who shook my hand and said "make us proud". Us was the volunteer fire service...
My uncle continued to do this until 2007 when he retired with almost 38 years in Aledo VFD.
In the last years his department had changed drastically, along with the town I grew up in. Aledo was no longer a 600 resident town, it was now 10 times that and encroachment from Ft Worth will soon make it just another suburb, surrounded by the big city.
I wish that was all that had changed, but it wasn't. The department has grown to the point of adding a second station. The department has many paramedics and almost all firefighters are EMT's and if not certified, at least trained to the point of competency. The department is a good one and the envy of every other department in the county, but...
I returned to Aledo in late 2005 and rejoined the department I left at 21. Few of the members even knew who I was other than Old Rick's nephew. The fact that I had more seniority in that department then most of the young certified guys escaped most but the few older ones.
I was just the down on his luck guy that rick brought with him to meetings.
Rick knew his limitations and when we had a major accident, he would show up with his pickup and red lights, block the stretch of road and wave a flare to warn motorists to slow down. He didn't attempt to get in the middle of an extrication, or tell anyone how to do their jobs, but he was there.
When I would sit around talking to some of the old hats, I would hear young guys asking why that old man still came around. What good was he? Was he even certified?
This is where I have an issue.
Our old timers are good for the department. Good for the new or young firefighters who learn the history from, to understand where the department came from to reach this point.
Rick knew he wasn't capable of fighting fire anymore, but he also felt a sense of camaraderie with every firefighter in that department, no matter what they thought of him.
When Rick chose to retire in 2007, he was given a wonderful AXE and a nice speech from the Chief who grew up learning from his as I had.
So...do 60 or 70 or 80 year old members need to be fighting fires or riding the apparatus...no. It isn't safe for them or others.
But, they do have a place in our houses.
We have to treat the pillars of our fire service with respect and dignity. These are the ones who sweated and bled for the towns we live in, years before we were even alive. to treat them like tottering old fools is an insult to not only the older firefighters, but the brotherhood as well.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Allen Wahlstrom on
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Everything I have read says 60 is max for firefighters...
Now, a Chief Officer that has no line firefighting responsibilities could go to 70.
My thinking is this:
Line Firefighters/Officers mandatory retirement at 60 with a max 5 year waver if able to pass ALL fitness and agility tests.
Chief Officers mandatory retirement at 65 with a max 5 year waver period if in exceptional health.
If a guy isn't too old to run the country at 70, then a guy can run a fire department at 60+.
Regardless, when it is time to go, a proper celebration of each firefighters career is called for, and pancake breakfasts, steak dinners, other fund raisers are great places where senior members can be of service to the department.
No one needs to be run off and there could be a senior position that enables these links to our past a deserving place in the department.
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thanks Kali!
I love guys like H., when I was a young firefighter we had one called Daniel "Pa" Boone who had great stories about watching Corsairs take off from the airfield during the end of WWII and up until the Korean War. He knew the history of the department back into the early parts of WWII and loved to share stories over a game of Spades (at which he cheated voraciously) and a pot of coffee.
Hadn't thought of him in many years until your post...thanks
TCSS
Wally
ah, and ummm...PLAY BALL!
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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One thing some of us older generation have going for us is, we have learned to work smarter, not harder. My case in point. Department training one evening was a 1410 drill for the younger bucks. With a 4 man crew, it was funnier than the Keystone Cops watching them run into each other and tripping over each other. Yes they got the task accomplished, but there was definite room for improvement.
Well wouldn't you know, one of them got mouthy and said something about us older ones not being able to do it. Well, the Chief drove the truck and I was riding seat. As the water was reaching the nozzle, I opened the bail as I reached the end of the 150'. There wasn't a whole lot said after the two old guys did it a minute faster that the young crew of 4. We may teach the younger ones everything they know, we just might not show them everything we know.
I know departments which have an abundance of young guys. So they started recruiting the older one and trained them as EO's. They are able to not only get the apparatus there safely, but are masters of keeping the water flowing. There is always something one can do no matter how old they are.
And BTW Allen, I have never been referred to as a tottering old fool, they usually refer to me as the small rear opening 3 feet below the head.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Wally:
I don't think that we have a poll option yet, but we need to post the question: what is the youngest, active member, what is the oldest, active member and what is the over all, average age of your fire department. For instance, our youngest is 22, our oldest is 58 and I would guess our average age at 42. That is a 25 person fire department.
It would let us know what we are up against, but we need some type of sampling from the 43,000 fire departments out there.
Who's next?
Maybe we should start a new thread.
TCSS.
Art
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definitely a new thread is in order.
Would be nice to get a few of the big players involved in this.
TCSS
Wally
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Permalink Reply by Chad Furr on
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I totally agree with you art. Age should have LITTLE bearing on job performance. Now I amsure I will catch hell from damnthing on this but hear me out. When I joined our local vollie dept there were 2 others the same night. me (39) and 1 (23) and another (20). I am in great shape and can out do both the younger ones in my dept. As far as that goes there are "old timers" on our dept. (55+) who can leave me in the dust. As I said I can out do the 20yo so I know for damn sure that the 55+ers will "smoke" these young kids butts. Should we retire ppl based on age??? NO I think a medical eval. should be the standard as Art listed. Rather you are 18 or 81 no pass med eval then BYE BYE!!! TCSS and Buckle UP
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Wright on
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Ok Men
I'll add my part, I've got 18 members, they aqes go from 18 to 81 with I say 43 for most. I'm 51 and the Chief. My older hats make runs, they don't do any interior work but they make up doing things that frees up my younger members. Both guys have over 60 years in the service, they know they had there time in the ditches, but they also feel they still need to be part of the brotherhood. I've got members that think they should go to the house, but as all as they know what they can and can't do I'm OK with them. Let all face it, we all are going to be there one day and I hope that somebody cares about the way we are going to feel. I don't have a line going out the door of younger guys or gals wanting to join, they are interested untill you go over all the training that is required, then you start hearing all the things they have to do on training night. Let face it, when we all joined up years ago it was something to be a firefighter, made you feel good inside and out. We didn't have to work 2 jobs to keep a roof over the heads of the family, wife stayed at home and raised the kids, we hadn't lost of asses in the stock market. As long as my old hat are not a danger to my younger member or themselve I'm going to and are glad they members of my department. Those 2/20 members should listen and learn from these ole hats. The truely are pillars of the brotherhood and the are due all the dignity and respect that comes with their service to the department. Now I'll step down off the beer cooler....
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Permalink Reply by Al (olddogg) Westbrook on
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I remember "back in the day" when I started in '82 ther were always a group of the "old timers" that came around station 1 on Saturday and even the the Mayor of Lebanon ,our county seat would come by and the Chief and the whole bunch of 'em would get into acouple of cars and go to eat lunch together. Afterward , they would all come back around and sit out in the front Bay with those of us on duty and "shoot the shit" . Now I don't think it could happen like that ,and its a shame .
I remember my Captain wouldn't let me drive any of our engines until one of the senior firefighters , Grant , had been out with me on the road and said it was OK , then the captain let me drive,but only the engine which was an automatic . Another of our senior firefighters,Elbert had to get me out on the road and OK that I could shift that damn 4 speed chevy Engine,and later he OK'd my driving the old International Tanker that had a 3 speed ,"split shift". Man ! did it make my day when Elbert said I could drive him anywhere :) . I respected him , not only because he had been around "a long time" ,but because "he knew" what he was doing . I told my wife early on "I'd follow Elbert or Grant into Hell,'cause I knew we'd come out of it OK".
when I was promoted to Lieutenant after twelve years service one of the younger guys said "well, I guess this makes you the big dog around here" and I put the nick name "Big Dog" on my helmet . well, politics are as dirty as they get in the fire service as anywhere else, I was pushed out as a Lieutenant ,but I'm still here as a Paramedic.
So my partner says to me " well, Hell if you aint the Big Dog no more ,I guess that makes you just the "Old Dog" now don't it?" So , I'm one of the "old dogs" now . there are a few of the "new KIds" that'll listen ,and I try to pass on what I know they way I was taught .But there are even more of them who think they already know it all .
After 27 years total service I'm looking at getting out and changing careers and going into Nursing . My knees are shot , but I can still do a damn good job of patient care ,so I'm going to serve my community for a few more years as a nurse,in an ER instead of down in a ditch somewhere in the middle of night .
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