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Nozzles
OK folks....I just completed a pump-ops class....and got drilled that smooth bores are the way to go....less nozzle reaction for the same or greater amount of water....So, what is everyone using...? and why...? I know we have task force/Fog nozzles but are currently going to smooth bores...thanks...look forward to your responses.....Paul
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Cody W. Nelson on
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LOL...that's funny. I do not see a correlation with pistol grip nozzles and female firefighters though. I don't know the exact time pistol grips were intorduced, but I would bet that it was well before females were prominant in the fire service. It's really only an ergonomical advancement in nozzle design.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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What's the use? Loyd Layman never intended for this to happen anyways...
You go ahead and use that fog pattern inside. Just let me know so I can get out first.
You need to cover anyone? Close the bail enough so you don't wash them out the back door, and you'll be protecting them just fine. Open up that fog pattern, and your gonna create havoc with the fire from the air movement it creates.
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Permalink Reply by Tiffanie Pettis on
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well there are deffinate advantages to each nozel that is for sure. my department has fog nozels on all our attack lines. we do carry a few straight smooth bores but they arn't hooked up on any of the lines. a few of the guys have never even used them. i think that the smooth bore is deffinately the way to go for the initial attack just becaouse of the pressure to water flow ratio on what not but once the fire is nocked down and for some other applications such as hydraulic ventilation you deffinately want to have a fog nozel. my experiance with using a smooth bore, being on the nozel, the way that the stream flows gives you a bit more distance depending of the diameter of the tip you are using. (obviously if you have a smaller diameter tip you are flowing a more concentrated stream with a farther distance than a wider diameter tip which would give you slightly less distance and not quite as concentrated stream of flow). also it is alot easier to control the hose with a smooth bore with a small diameter tip (compliant with whatever diameter line it is attached to) than with some fog nozels full bale and closed fog. alot depends onn the application it will be used for and the opperator of the nozel itself. personally ny favorite is the TFT combi-nozel. they work great and they give you the best of both. it takes a couple times to get used to the way they opperate but they are DEFFINATELY worth it!. my department got one to try out a few months ago we used it once decised that we liked it so much we got 2 more. i think that the combi_-nozel is deffinately the way to go because you have a real smooth bore and a full fog nozel all in one and there still easy to manuver once you get used to how it changes back and forth. but that is deffinately what i recomend
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i mean if you really wanna get into all the technicalities about the nozel you gotta look at what it is designed for. smooth bores keep the water molecules coherently together so you are flowing larger whater dropplets that will take more to break the molecules apart and change the physical state of the water from liquid to a gas. it will also effect the thermal ballance differently. now, with a fog nozel the way it works is there are little teeth inside tho tip that break up the water molecules as they come out of the nozel. creating smaller water droppplets- depending if you have it set to wide fog or have the pattern as closed as you can will determine the distance the water dropplets are spread apart. so even if you only run a fog nozel and you have the pattern closed fog the water still seperates when it comes out of the nozel but then is pushed back together by gravity an whatever to creat the straight stream but the molecules are still being broken up. ---so this is why when you are in the middle of a room and the idiot on the nozel has it on a fog pattern insteaad of atraight stream everyone gets roasted because the heat turns those little molecules to steem WAY faster because the water is less concentrated. but at the same time if you know what the hell you are doing you can also create a barrier and do some other strategic manuvering in order to give your self some "fresh air" if needed or to save your life,but that you cannot do with a smoothbore. firefighting is really quite simple if you figure out the technicalities of the different aspects such as friction loss, presure loss, all of the cumbustibility factors and ignition points etc. it really shouldn't be a guessing game . alot of common 'problems' can be solved when people understand the way the whole system works
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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Some of these dicussions have me sitting here scratching my head. I cannot beleive for a minute anyone who has been in a burning building wants to FOG to create steam. This does not help the situation, it makes it worse. Steam does not fix eminent flash over, or "flash fire", GPM's do. GPM's to over come the BTU's, it's that simple. Now I have a preference, but the moral of this story is not to use fog streams. Saying solid bores don't have the extinguishing capabilites is ludacris, and then next breath say, ya there good for defensive big fires, doesn't make sense. I you have not had the chance to read Andy Fredricks (RIP) droplets of water revisited (fire engineering) from an original article writen by Lloyd Layman a founder of fog. This is an excellent article that discusses hose streams and there effects.
I am a smooth bore man my self, fog where created for ship board, encapulated fires to "steam them out" behind a closed door, once introduced into that aptmosphere. We run one fog on each of our pieces and that for the special occasion fire that we come upon, or as an additional line if needed. Smooth bores have less nozzle reaction, and less of a chance making a mistake, put the wet stuff on the red stuff.
For those of you that think foging something is ok, please read this article.
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wow... some women can handle a regular nozel without a pistol grip just as well and even better in some cases than alot of men ok lol... also some of it depends on if your back knows what hes doin also lol
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I gotta disagree with you. Close the bail a tad to create some turbulence, and you'll get that "fresh air".
The bigger problem is that too many do not know how to hold the line, and instead use those pistol grip nozzles like a .45 Glock, and wonder what they are doing wrong.
Hose pinned under your arm, bail at arms length...and get that nozzle out in front of you so you are protected by the stream, and the air movement around the stream is well out in front of you.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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If you have a non-survivable, flashed over structure fire and the opportunity to attack it indirectly, fog is fine, particularly if the fire has extended to places that are difficult to reach. The trick is to not be in the compartment with the fire when you turn the water to steam. Open the door, hit it with a quick circle or S-pattern, and close the door...just like a giant can job.
Fog can extinguish fires disproportinate to the amount of BTUs you'd think, because it penetrates into small spaces more rapidly and completely than does a stream of water from a straight tip.
In the fog vs. smoothbore arguement, the correct answer is "It's situational."
If you only have a hammer in your toolbox, you'll try to make every problem look like a nail, regardless of the brand of hammer you choose. Try using that smoothbore "hammer" on a propane fire "nail" to see what I mean. The inappropriate nozzle choice is a two-way street...both have their place, and both can be used in the wrong way.
And...smooth bores don't have "less nozzle reaction" unless you're comparing a 100 PSI fog nozzle to a 50 PSI smoothbore. If you use 50 PSI combination tips, the nozzle reaction is essentially the same for the two.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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Nozzles are tools in our arsenal.
Our 1.75" attack lines have combo nozzles.
The Deuce and a halfs have smooth bores.
Our high rise/standpipe packs have both 2.5" and 1.75" lightweight hose with break apart nozzles.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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First I'd like to thanks all those who took the time to post their opinions....I really appreciate it....Second of all to those that cannot spell nozzle......maybe you should spend some time learning the equipment and nomanclature before commenting on someone elses ideas or questions....True it doesn't take a "speller" to be a good Firefighter...but it does tend to make others take you a little more seriously if you can portray your ideas and feelings in writting....just my thoughts ....thanks again for all the input...Stay safe Brothers and Sisters..and as I have said before (And probably will again) Keep the Faith....Paul
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Why do you want to "break the molecules apart"..? This will do two things...it will make steam and steam WILL burn you right through your PPE...and Second of all it will disrupt the thermal layering...in simple words..that hot and nasty air that we are taught to stay under when working a fire is now everywhere...so those super heated gasses are now even at floor level (not a good thing)....The wet stuff (water) has to have enough penetrating power to reach the seat of the fire...some fogs will evaporate to steam before they get there....and that doesn't even address the reduced nozzle reaction and less effort required to work the line...Sure just about anyone can work a line either 1 1/2", 1 3/4" or even a 2 1/2" for a while...but it gets tougher as time and the heat goes on..we aren't in this to get our butts kicked or to prove who can and who cannot handle certain lines...again just my point of view....Paul
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It is also interesting to find that some making strong comments have been in the Fire Service for a year or less...their "experience" is amazing....Hey probie...get me a G2 will you.....OOPS....I didn't just say that did I...? LOL....Paul
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