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Its only a "Garage Fire"...
You've arrived at a Single family residential, there appears to be a "pretty good" working fire located within the garage..but its extending due to a strong wind and the fire loading within the garage. As you can see from the aerial views, this house is located within a fairly dense and common subdivision. All the structures are wood frame, some have asphalt architectural shingles, others have wood shakes. There's a hydrant right in front on the Alpha side. ( Cops just moved their patrol car from the front of it).
So....How big of a problem do you have?
What can you expect in the way of safety concerns related to typical garage fires? ie fire loading, products, materials, exposures, hazards etc. In this incident what does your risk profiling tell you?
Strategy, tactics....take your pick; what are the issues and how are you going to address them?
Logistics...What'll happen if the fire communicates to the Delta exposure and takes command of that structure?
Let's hear about insights on command management, engine ops, truck ops and rescue ops...you make the call.
Lastly... What are the "BIG" picture issues confronting you, IF you can't control the fire to the house of origin and the fire rapidly extends to other exposures ( three or more adjacent structures..due to wind driven fire and your lack of getting ahead of the fire progress tactically) Again, look at the aerial images..what are the operational and safety considerations?
UPDATE: CHECK THE POSTINGS STARTING ON THREAD PAGE FIVE...THE FIRE HAS NOW EXTENDED..."hope you're calling in some additional alarms...."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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Oh and besides all else...LEAVE THE PPV FAN ON THE TRUCK!!!
That fan will only guarantee to spread the fire through the home, and into any voids it can find.
Geez...those fans.
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Permalink Reply by Dwight Goodman on
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Yehha...agree
Good for when there is some residual smoke after someone leaves a pot on the stove...and in this situation it would probably come out near or at the end of the job to help with overhaul ops.
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Permalink Reply by Walter "Tommy" Little on
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Due to the radiant heat on the # 4 side, my first priority would be to protect the exposure and the vehcle in the driveway. Secondly, I would set up large caliber streams to operate on original fire building. As a precautionary measure I would also make sure all exposures are evacuated - and residents a safe distance away - until the fire is controlled in the original fire building. Also, I would have requested a second-alarm on arrival.
Walter
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Permalink Reply by Gary Dreyer on
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Our department operates a 1250 gpm engine with 1000 gal on board, a 2000 gpm pumper/tanker, a 5000 gal tanker and a 500 gpm mini-pumper/rescue. If dispatch reports were indicating a working fire, I would immediately request a RIT team from one neighboring department and an engine and manpower from a second department.
Upon arrival our first engine should hit the fire with a straight stream from the pre-piped deck gun only using the e/o, at the same time personnel would be streatching an 1 3/4 line to the residence. Second engines arrival would see an assistance with the 5", also that crew would also need to pull a blitzfire or 2 1/2 off the first due engine and train it on the exposure "D" (both the blitz fire and 2 1/2 are pre connected.
The E/O off of our second engine could also help with his pre-piped deck gun with his 1800 gal tank.
Mutual aid manpower could also aid in checking exposures, we have a great working relationship with our sheriffs dept. deputies could watch brands and block traffic.
As far as concerns for additional extension most likely we would move additional resources to the area as a precautionary statement. Further we may also call in the department to the north of us with a full assignment.
Since the extension, given our water system, make a north all call for tankers, request a resource officer in dispatch (this may have occurred earlier) and request 5 additional engine companies as well as a couple of truck companies. In our area we have 3 nearby ladders and the closest one has a 14 minute response minimum. An all call for tankers will bring and additional 7 tankers, for this we would start a draft from a static source or a neighboring districts hydrant system. The five additional engines would come from the two departments requested rit and manpower from earlier as well as back fill crews. It would be the job of the resource officer to back fill all areas stripped of like resources.
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Permalink Reply by Erin Rockey on
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that's not even funny to joke about something like this. dude that's messed up. how about you take another look at something and think if you should post it next time. and hopefully you don't post something like this again. some people actually take their jobs seriously.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Mullally on
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You have a water supply right in front of the exposure 1 side. This should be a textbook attack. Cover the exposure to the right and put the fire out. End of story.
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Permalink Reply by emodfd on
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Of course different methods would be used big city vs rural etc. Here is a major city response. We get 3 engines 1 truck(ladder) 1 BC on first alarm, second truck and bc assigned if anything showing on arrival. This is looks worse than it is, this for the most part is still a contents fire. The first in engine should be able to knock this down quick once lines are on the ground. The living space is your bravo exposure, the house next door on bravo would be bravo 2. Take a line inside and knock it down with 1-3/4 or 2" and push the fire away from the unburned part of the house.A 2" line would knock the main body of fire down in a matter of a couple minutes. This should quickly take care of all exposures,and be the quickest way to effect rescue.Putting out the fire solves most of your problems. Truck company do primary search and pull ceiling in conjunction with 1 Engine, I would be quite sure you have some extension in the attic or adjacent wall. 2nd engine protect exposure Delta (which should be right on the tail of En 1 in our dept) 3rd engine could bring in second line to back up En 1 and 2nd truck begin protecting other exposures and watching for extension and taking care if any is found such as the house under construction.
I will say based on the scenario before the major extension scenario to the 3rd house we would not put an additional alarm on this.A couple of Engine companies should be able to take care of this quickly,assuming normal resources.
P.S. A water curtain will not stop radiant heat, fire science 101.
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Permalink Reply by Pat Murphy on
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Well, it certainly is not going to come back out the front!
If you want to find out, be inside a burning structure that has a master stream openned on it!
Look, if there is any chance of a saveable life in any structure, then a master stream is not the weapon of choice. I have seen several residential fires have the fire pushed down and through the remainder of hose when a master stream has been used from above, and I have seen many a residential room/contents fire pushed into and through-out an entire attic when used horizontally, only making the problem that much worse.
This is a very simple single story residential fire that in my mind, gives no indication that a master stream is warranted.
Any fire that I have ever seen a master stream deployed has become a loss. This includes structures that could have been saved.
I have to disagree with you on one additional point; if a master stream, smooth broe or fog, is operated from above a fire and directed down at a fire, it will push the fire down and horizontally through a structure. This is almost as efficient at controlling a defensive structure fire as runnign through the building with a drip torch. Smooth bore master streams still will move a good volum of air at a defensive distance, enough to spread the fire. If you place the nozzle at the structure, i.e. a window or facade openning, direct it upward toward a ceilign so that the stream is broken and rains down, minimal air is moved, and your defensive master stream now becomes a likely offensive weapon.
Give it a shot...
But I guarantee you, if you watch the next fire that uses an elevated master stream downward on a fire, the fire will spread throughout the entire building and all that will be left is the walls in a few hours.
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Trainer:
DO NOT USE PPV IF YOU HAVE ACTIVE FIRE AND POSSIBLY AN ATTIC FIRE.
Please google "Contra Costa County (California) LODD, 2007", and read up on the use of the PPV on that fire. 2 fireifghters and 2 civilian fatalities. VERY SIMILIAR STRUCTIRE as the one in the simulation.
Water puts fires out. Not PPV.
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Chris:
Nice progression. These fires happen quite often.
Keep it simple. Establish your Divisions (geographical) early upon arrival, left to right. Just like how we read books.
Division 1-3, fire currently burning, Div 4 would be house on the "D" side exposure of Div 3 (under remodel).
This is a growing fire. Contain it first at Div 3-4 break. Hold it there, direct additional arriving companies (engines) 1 to each division working back toward Div 1.
Call for at least 2 additional alarms. You'll need at least 1 for Divs 2 & 3. You may have rescues to make in Div 2 still.
Again, keep it simple. Stop the spread to exposures. Don't miss the forest for the trees.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
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Simple and defining...you're right on ..
Thanks for the reply
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