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Its only a "Garage Fire"...
You've arrived at a Single family residential, there appears to be a "pretty good" working fire located within the garage..but its extending due to a strong wind and the fire loading within the garage. As you can see from the aerial views, this house is located within a fairly dense and common subdivision. All the structures are wood frame, some have asphalt architectural shingles, others have wood shakes. There's a hydrant right in front on the Alpha side. ( Cops just moved their patrol car from the front of it).
So....How big of a problem do you have?
What can you expect in the way of safety concerns related to typical garage fires? ie fire loading, products, materials, exposures, hazards etc. In this incident what does your risk profiling tell you?
Strategy, tactics....take your pick; what are the issues and how are you going to address them?
Logistics...What'll happen if the fire communicates to the Delta exposure and takes command of that structure?
Let's hear about insights on command management, engine ops, truck ops and rescue ops...you make the call.
Lastly... What are the "BIG" picture issues confronting you, IF you can't control the fire to the house of origin and the fire rapidly extends to other exposures ( three or more adjacent structures..due to wind driven fire and your lack of getting ahead of the fire progress tactically) Again, look at the aerial images..what are the operational and safety considerations?
UPDATE: CHECK THE POSTINGS STARTING ON THREAD PAGE FIVE...THE FIRE HAS NOW EXTENDED..."hope you're calling in some additional alarms...."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eduardo A Rodriguez on
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the owner of these garage no have a basic fire dectectors.
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emofd,
Amen someone finally said it! Folks exposures need to be wet down! Class A foam if all possible. Great addition with the ps.
Sorry Jeff, I read just the lates post, I think I need to give you kudo's also now that I have read the latest activity on this tread.
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Permalink Reply by Earl Hoggard on
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This would be a diff. fire to fight. 1st things 1st set up the water curtain on the right side of house. Send in a crew threw the front door keep the biggest part of the fire out of the house. Set the 2nd engine up next door and have a team in there back yard to knock down what the wind blows off. That would be the way we would set things up in my small rual area. But it would still be tough.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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OK, first off the garage is gone! The primary exposure (YOUR NUMBER 1) exposure is the ATTACHED HOUSE. Like Philly said, occupants probably inside saving their valuables because the damn fire department is taken too long to get here... LOL
My only concern is there is NO FRONT DOOR on Division- A. The door is actually on the driveway side and very close to the fire. And next available full-sized entry door is probably in the rear of the dwelling. Good luck getting to that one quickly, (due to the dense population and nobody wanting to see their next door neighbors).
My concern with stretching the first 1.75" attack line inside the dwelling for exposure control / protection would be how long of a delay before you muster up enough help to just put the damn garage out with a 2.5" or the deck gun? Any delay will increase the danger level of the S&R and ultimately overrun the 1.75" line if you had to resort to fighting the fire from inside. That is an exposure line. Obviously water is no object, hydrant nearby, and a well trained and efficient engine company can have most of this knocked before the first truck arrives. Manpower will drive everyone's responses in a different direction. I respect Chris's intent to say this is what you got responding but sorry many don't have those resources in the real world.
Sometimes putting the fire out removes most of the other factors... especially burning down the entire neighborhood.
Sorry but I have never-ever seen a water curtain actually work... only piss away your precious water.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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I agree. I remember the old welded steel water curtains. They did nothing (proven) except waste water. The siding on the house next door would still melt and or the radiant heat would catch it on fire. Direct contact makes sense.
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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I've just seen another hint as to construction differences. "The siding on the house next door would still melt" - is flammable siding really used to a great extent in the USA? I've seen it melting away in videos and photos, but never thought of it as being wide-spread in use. We had companies doing that to old timber houses many years ago, but the concept has fallen out of favour. Here, most houses are brick, or painted timber.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Pat,
There are situations where it is appropriate to use PPV (actually, PPA) when there is active fire.
This situation is not one of them.
Ben
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Permalink Reply by Dan Morriss on
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This is a simple fire, so lets not complicate it. 1 3/4" foam inducted attack line. 13/4" foam inducted back up line. Truck vertical vents the structure and all the other fun truck stuff. Fire goes out! You may have to put the fence fire out but thats about it. 3 Engines and 2 Trucks at SFD gets it done.
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Tony,
For the cost associated with vinyl siding, it is probably one of the most common finishes at least in the northeast USA. Problem is it melts and burns easily. The construction industry also offers vinyl soffit vents under the roof overhang (eaves) so an outside fire against the building, example a trash fire can easily burn up the outside and extend into the attic via the siding.
The US fire service have suffered LODD deaths from a fire that actually started on the outside of the structure. Understandably it had many other factors that proceeded to the tradgic event.
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Pat,
I didn't say anything about an elevated master stream or directing it downward onto the fire from above. A deck pipe stream, applied horizontally from the end of the driveway, with a smoothbore tip is appropriate. It won't push the fire into the house, because the water stream will be directed at a right angle to any possible opening into the residential part of the structure. The garage fire is well vented, and well-vented fires generally don't get pushed around much...at least in 1,800 square foot single family dwellings. There is no life in the involved area, and without knocking down the garage fire, you may not be able to get a line inside residential area, because there is no front door to this house.
Here's an example of a recent fire similar to the one Chris discusses where the 1st engine protected a nearby exposure with a hand line while using the deck pipe to knock the main body of the fire. During the deck pipe attack, the 2nd engine took a handline to the rear. When they had their line in position, the deck pipe was shut down (coordinated by Command) and the single 1.75 inch line mopped up the small amount of fire remaining in the interior with one truck company in support. Two of the truckies completed the interior search and the other two pulled the ceilings to expose the attick fire.
No civilian was in the house, but the master stream didn't push the fire at all.
I've seen numerous Transitional attacks of this nature, including several on well-involved Type V apartment fires in the past couple of years. They have been universally successful. The trick is to hit the fire at an angle that doesn't push the fire around. A solid stream applied to Chris's garage fire horizontally and parallel to the living area isn't going to push this fire anywhere except out the burned-out Side C of the garage.
Note that in a Transitional attack, you don't leave the master stream operating once the handline crew is ready to enter.
Ben
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Chris,
I often bring these differant files up that you have posted going through and viewing the photo's. I try to disect differing aspects of the fire. (developement, involvement, smoke, exposures, civilian entrapment, ff safety)
I am amazed at some of the answers. Most people who read these have a few things that the IC's don't have for these particular incidents. That aspect is time. We (the viewers) are afforded the luxury of sitting in a plush computer chairs staring at 2 dimentional photographs with the coursework outlined for us. We can sit for as long as we want and brainstorm HOW and WHAT we will do to make a bad situation right. These Incident Commanders for these particular incidents you are sharing have a matter of moments to decide the course of action. I would love for some of these folks who imput phrases like "thats crazy" to be able to be viewed by the rest of us as they arrive on scene. I would love to see the course of action. I would love to see the "leave the fan on the truck" comment displayed when the fan may be the only thing that could save a life. I would love to see the blitz/non blitz/straight up defensive attack brought up when the heat is on.
People, before responding remember this, We all do things differantly. So long as it's safe, why should YOUR way always be the right way? Different circumstances and situations (AND TRAINING) can make something you "heard" to be wrong completely off course and perfectly feasible in a fire situation.
In closing, thanks for continuing to challange me through these posts.
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you missed the memo on page 5, you have 3 fire buildings now.
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