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Go In or Stay Out
We're having a discussion in the area bout a recent house fire. After dispatch fire board upgraded to a working alarm. Now this is were it gets complicated. There were reports that everyone was out fo the house. A fire police went onscene with a house "fully involved" and the responding Chief told FB this would be a defensive operation.
The first reponding unit was a rescue with no water. They said they were told by nieghbors that a lady was seen going in "earlier" They attempted to enter the dwellingwith a hose line and ended getting a little burnt.
There is the question should they have attempted the rescue without a hoseline and even if they did with the fire load would it have been smart to enter the house.
My feeling is that while we are the people who are supposed to keep the public safe there is only so much we can do. I love my kids and really like my wife and want to go home to them. When do we as responders say a rescue attempt is unsafe?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Do a FFN member search for "Christopher Naum" and then look at his forum post history.
There are numerous good strategy-tactics scenarios there.
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Permalink Reply by Marty O'Connor on
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As Lindsay said "Bottom line does the risk outweigh the benefit"? But search team should never enter building without some sort of hoseline IN the building and or right next to them.....Safety should be the priority during ALL fire department/company activities....From what your saying they should have never went in....No orders should have been given to enter the building.....
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Marty, I think you're confusing two different things.
In this case, the incident had been declared "Defensive" by the IC, which means that no one enters the structure.
Searching without a hose line is routine practice for a lot of departments, including mine. I don't advocate searching a SFD in the immediate area of a working fire without a hoseline, but situationally, searching without a line is not only OK, it's the best way to search rapidly.
Time, distance, and shielding can protect the search team from fire just as it can protect us from radiation. The less time the search team spends near or above the fire, the safer they'll be. The farther away from the fire they are, the less shielding (hoseline) they'll need.
There are clearly three acceptable means of protecting a search team. A hoseline is only 1/3 of those options.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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"But search team should never enter building without some sort of hoseline IN the building and or right next to them...."
What about VES?
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Permalink Reply by Brian Mackie on
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Ok, I just need to ask, is that the exact wording ? Or, is it merely a typo? The word excepted or is it accepted? Big difference. I would (just because) think it should be ACCEPTED..but I could very well be wrong. Please explain k? thanks.
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Ben I agree you are correct! Like you said though defensive means no one enters the building.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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I guess it all depends on your department. On this department if you aren't willing to enter a structure without a hoseline, you won't be on a rescue squad or truck company. Hell, you just won't make it on this department period. Like someone mentioned earlier, maybe 97% of departments don't do this. Our rescue squad has one job at a fire. Go in and search. They never have a hoseline. Truck companies are outside of the building throwing ladders, cutting bars, and venting for the most part. However, the bar man makes entry and usually goes ahead of the engine company on his own popping doors and searching. While venting the hook man might VES.
The "fully involved" thing changes from department to department as well. Not everyone considers it the same thing. So like I said, it all depends on the department. Mine probably would have went in. We also operate differently than a lot of places. We have the extra resources that some don't. We can have 5 engines on scene in a minute of each other. They all have assignments before they get there as well. Instead of a command based structure where an officer gets on scene, takes command, and figures out what to do, we just follow the SOGs. 1st due goes here, 2nd due goes here, etc. So unless that rescue squad shows up and decides to back down on their own, they will go in.
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