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Does It Have To be Custom?
Been in the service for awhile and I always wondered why each and every peice of equipment has to be custom. We paid 138k in 1984 230k in 1989 and 500k 2 years ago for engines.I understand inflation but I'm sure if Seagrave, Pierce, KME etc could build one or two type of engines that 400k would go back down to 250-300K. Delivery times would be reduced.
Maybe do what the car industry does and offer limited options. High/low cabinet sides, certain number of discharges/intakes etc.
While I know this would never happen because for some strange reason your fires are different from mine, but think how much easier and cheaper it would be.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Roger Neal on
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There are a number of reasons, first starting with appartus committees who think they can design rigs better than the engineers at the manufacturers. Manufacturers promote customization as they know it will result in higher prices. Some of the cost increase can be attributed to cost of materials, and new regulations such as for diesel engine emission standards.
Certainly the needs in a major metro city are different than a small rural department, but some standardization can occur. Even in the US there are examples. Look at one of the largest FD fleet operators, Cal Fire. They have pretty well standardized urban engines, urban ladders, suburban engines, and rural engines depending on the need. Seems to work well for them, and they are a true multi-hazard busy organization. The Forest Service and BLM wildland agencies have taken a similar approach.
Here's an idea, instead of trying to design the rig, develop performance specs and let the manufacturers do the design. The specs can be as simple as a pump of XXXX GPM, a tank of XXXgals, meet NFPA 1901. paint it RRR.
Last time I checked it is still water coming out of a hose line presurized by a pump, but operated by a trained crew of firefighters (often up close and personal with the fire) that puts out the fire. Chrome bumpers, bells, three types of sirens, roll-up doors, custom leather seats with the department logo, or you name it don't do the job. You may think of it as "your" rig, or baby, but remember who really ownes it, the taxpayers who bought it so that you can use it.
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Permalink Reply by Rachel on
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What I meant was- If the apparatus is not special to your department(it is the same as surrounding area apparatus) you can't brag about why yours is better!
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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So you think that being able to brag about your apparatus is better than bragging about your skills?
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The fire Services are not about bragging. An old Captain of mine would say, Don't beat your own drum. We are here to help others, not brag."
I'd let your training and fire suppression, and EMS actions prove your ability. The neighboring departments already know if you are good or not. Remember it is people, not rigs that provide the services. In many cases, the big Rigs are just taxis.
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Permalink Reply by Fireman Larry on
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Good philosophy, but you get more done in less time using a nail gun...
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Permalink Reply by Mark Klaene on
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Well the first engine I bought was in 1999 in cost $189k. I just bought another last year and the cost was $194k. Now all mine are on commercial chassis and besides needing 4wd and speciific engine and axle ratings due to the mountain roads the changes I make to what the body builder offers standard is only about 5-8% . Changes tend to be in speciific equipment such as radio and lights, and specifying shelving/drawers layouts to fit our particular equipment and how we mount store it so each truck is similar.
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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To me there should be only a couple of options for engines,
Tank Size 500-750-1000
Pump size 1250-1500-2000, might as well go with a 1500, never noticed a difference with the 2000 pump we have now over the 1250 we had.
Few options number & position of discharges and intakes. One of our engines had 11 discharges...really...literally 13. 2 rear pre connects 2 rear non pre, 3 top pres 2 driver side and 2 passenger side pumper pre. Most we ever used was 3 at one time. And thats with a 2000 gpm pump.
High or low side capartments
Maybe a few others
Don'tknow much about ladders only that I hate getting on one.
Our fire company is/was well known in the area for the looks of our engines. I took more pride in being known for good firefighters.
Standard 6 man cab
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Permalink Reply by Douglas M. Andrew on
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a wise man once told me that " it doesn't matter what your equipment looks like, when it comes to pumping water they are all the same. Be proud of the equipment you do have. it will serve you well." Ive never heard of someone stopping a department from putting their fire out because their trucks aren't shiny and new.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Weber on
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We're going to be replacing a pumper/tanker in the next year or two and it is definitely going to be on a commercial chassis.Just getting done paying off a custom engine the dept. bought in 2000.No way we can do that again due to loss of some income sources.We just want a basic 1000-1500 pump,2000 gal. tank,2500 gal. porta tank,wetside T-tank.Nothing fancy.Steel wheels,steel bumpers,really no extras.Only real thing we want is a LDH discharge for relay pumping.We priced them out and the average for what we want right now is 190-200 grand brand new.Skys the limit from there though.Unreal.We refurbed the one we have now in '96 for 40 grand.That was basically a new truck built on our old chassis.
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Amen.Our brush truck is a 1964 IH and it still goes places these new rigs can't.It still runs better than almost anything we have.
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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I believe Ferrara and Eone are trying to do this but from what I've seen a lot of bolt on parts which is not a good thing. Let's look at the chassis, near 100% increase in the last 10 years due to gov regs and chrome you say, well theres the bumper and mirrors the latter if you want heated (a must up here in the north) will come chrome. Wheels, well we splurged here upgrade was $900 for polished aluminum which is a large weight savings over steel, but you can use SS simulators from your local truck stop for less. Paint color should cost the same across the board, It's got to be painted, color shouldn't matter with the exception of a few high tec colors. As for the back, it could be standardized, but it better be welded together and stay away from bolt-on. Quality trucks today have gone away from regular steal and are using stainless and aluminum for longevity and here is where mistakes are made, make sure you compare thickness and quality, there are several different grades. Now I believe in fiscal responsibility I also believe you get what you pay for and a nice looking truck has some advantages, recruitment and retention are 2 that come to mind, and for me...I brag about my truck AND my guys.
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