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Black turn outs and safety
What color of turnouts do you use and why. I can't imagine using black because if I go down in a fire, It will be harder to find in black.Yes , I get you have the pass device but sometimes hearing where the sound is coming from in the comotion is hard.I prefer the normal tan color.I clean mine after every fire.Be safe and God Bless all of you.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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"Firefighters supporting Breast Cancer Awareness donn Pink Turnouts to show support."
It's 2009, not the turn of the 20th century. Traditions are cool, but at the cost of your personal health and safety, I personally think the use of black turnouts is an old practice that needs to be changed. Hopefully, the use of a PASS device and the reflective strips on the turnouts will work but what concerns me more is the masking of soot and chemicals that on a yellow or brown turnouts would be immediately visible.
Products of decomposition, organic vapors and mists, aldehydes, ketones, and unburned radicals just love to attach themselves to your gear. If you can't see it, but only can smell the typical off gassing that we are all familiar with then that could be exposing yourself (dermal, inhalation, ingestion) and for some folks, depending on your gene pool, could trigger a cancer in your body that could have been prevented if you had only reduced the potential of exposure.
It's cool to go along with tradition sometimes, but not at your own expense. Dare to keep up with what doctors, epidemiologists, scientists and manufacturers have learned and shared with us. It all depends on how long you want to live and what quality of life you want in the end. Besides, it's more fun to spend time with your family and friends than it is getting chemo...
TCSS, CB
NOTE: I am not condoning the use of pink turnouts... : )
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Permalink Reply by shane phillips on
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We have black and tan turnout gear
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Permalink Reply by Melissa Eastwood on
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Our department used to have black turnout gear. I was a little hotter. We now have the tan turnout gear. We do tend to clean it alot more because it shows dirt easier. When we had the black, we put off cleaning it because it did not look dirty. As far as a safety issue, it really did not pay a factor in us changing colors. Both black and tan gear has the reflective striping on it so both should reflect with light hits it.
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Permalink Reply by trevor leseman on
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lyons oregon just got new black turnouts and they are great we just resently had a fire and we could see just fine because the reflective strips are green the black actualy sets the green out very bright it looks great and i think it might be better we had the tan befor and the older guys liked them but they said the change is nice and as of now every one realy likes the new blacks
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Permalink Reply by Ray Edwards on
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Glad to hear that there are allot of departments that are using them and feel they are safe . I recently saw them at a show in town and agree that they look sharp. Now that I have a new set just in , It will be awhile until I try them . I hope you will all be safe and God Bless .
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Permalink Reply by Trevor Holmberg on
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This has been a debate in our department for the last 8 months. I am the PPE manager and have been researching it for that time. 90% of our guys would like Black. The answer is simple. Personal Preference, Style, whatever the look your going for, that is it, One is not safer than the other. Ergonomics, THL, and TPP that is what is important.
What do I have to back up this statment?
Well, I have a paper written by an Eye Doctor in NY stating that Tan and Yellow gear is more visible due to the color spectrum the eye picks up first. I think Most NY Depts wear Black.
I have a Paper from an Eye Doc in CA that states Black with yellow triple trim is more visible in a wider variety of lighting situations because of the contrast and the eyes ability to pick out shades of Grey at night. I think Most CA depts wear Tan or Yellow.
I took Photos of Black and Tan Gear in different Lighting situations and against different Backgrounds. When I showed them to a variety of people they all said the gear color made no difference. It was all dependant on Background and lighting.
1 FF brought up some NIOSH reports, where FF's were hit by cars and he noted that the FF's were in Black gear and it was listed as a factor to why the FF was hit. I did a Google search of "Firefighter hit by car" , I found Eleven news articles in the first 3 or 4 pages of results 2 of them either Alcohol or poor road conditions were a factor. In the other 9, 1 FF was wearing Black, FDNY, and the other 8 were in Tan or Yellow. Conclusion, It is not the color, but the Driver who is reponsible.
I have talked with the big 3 Mfgs, Lion, Morning Pride, and Globe. Not one could produce a visibility study other than the 2 previously mentioned. All of them said Black was not an issue in heat absorbion due to the Liner systems. As a matter of fact, Underwriters Laboratories does not even require the Textile mills to provide different color samples and THL and TPP's are the same for all colors depending on actual fabric type ( i.e. PBI, Fusion, Advance, Nomex).
Unofficially they said the Temperature change inside the Turnouts would be undetectable by human skin.
As far as dirt,blood, Grime and the icky stuff. There are guys that wash there gear when they are suppose to and guys that won't, We all know that we need to clean it when it gets soiled no matter what color it is, and we know when it gets dirty.
Here is my last point. Seattle Fire did a 12 month wear test of different PPE. After that wear test and there own Visibility study, They spent a $1.2 Million Federal Grant and switched from Tan PPE to Black PPE.
If its good enough for Seattle, FDNY, Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, Tokyo Japan, London Fire Brigade, Oslo Norway, Paris France and the List goes on of huge Departments that wear Black, then its good enough for our 40 Member department.
If you would like any of this Info for your own department, just send me a note and I will try to get it to you.
Good debate though,
Keep having fun out there,
Trev :-)
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Chief made it Official today we are Switching to Black.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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My first set of issued gear was a 3/4 length canary yellow Nomex with silver reflective striping and bunker pants to match, hip boots and short boots for the night hitch.
My second set of issued gear was made by Janesville... a short canary yellow Nomex coat and bunker pants with orange reflective striping... we looked like a bunch of mutant bumblebees. That gear was crap.
My third set of turnouts was black P84 with lime/silver/lime striping made by Cairns/Globe.
My fourth set was the same color, only with PBI as the material and made by Globe.
My present set is Globe Extreme white PBI.
My fire academy issued gear is tan Morning Pride.
Yellow, tan, black, white, blue, green, purple, red or the whole freakin' rainbow...
The bottom line is: the gear is made to protect you. Wash it often so it can.
Take care of your gear, it will take care of you.
The fire service has more important things to think about and problems to solve than arguing about gear color.
To quote Stan Lee of Marvel Comics.... e'nuff said!
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Permalink Reply by Rick Bibb on
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If you will take a good look at the reflective stripping on the black turn outs at night, it seems to be more pronounced than the reflective strips on the lighter colored turn outs. We wear black morning pride and we love em.
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black is a bad color you can not see black in the day time or at night
brian burton vfd
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Permalink Reply by Daniel J. Graham on
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Have you not read the last 10 pages of discussion? Read trevor's post. I think that explains it all.
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"This has been a debate in our department for the last 8 months. I am the PPE manager and have been researching it for that time. 90% of our guys would like Black. The answer is simple. Personal Preference, Style, whatever the look your going for, that is it, One is not safer than the other. Ergonomics, THL, and TPP that is what is important."
This was the first paragraph of my previous post. That is my point exactly. One is not safer than the other. Everything depends on background and Lighting conditions.
Keep havin' Fun,
Trev :-)
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