This topic comes up when I am assigned to engineer. I believe that the engineer should have the say what goes on inside the cab while the vehicle is in motion. My reason is if your involve in a wreck who is going to be sited. In a case that happen in a county next to mine a quint responding code 3 T-Boned a car a killed the occupants inside. The driver tried in court for the deaths, and the local media covered the story only on the driver. My understanding is that the officer riding in the appropriate seat was not charged or any actions taken. Only internal. With this accident speed was a factor and responding to a general alarm drop. Looking for opinions on this and if some dept's have SOG's on the topic.
i have one question...
if the driver is blasting through stop lights and stop signs without due reguard..
why not stop the truck right then and there to change the driver???
it would be the safer thing to do...
after all, he is putting the life of the crew and the public in great peril by driving without due reguard..
i myself would want out of that rig if the engineer is driving like that ..aside from the fact that i would be greatly upset for him jepordizing the well being of the public, the crew on board, and myself...
The apparatus operator is in charge of the vehicle while in motion. This being said the operator should obey all V&T traffic laws that apply ie: ( not running red lights/stop signs, prudent speed) does'nt matter the alarm.
The Officer is in charge of the crew and should also be responsible as to tell the operator to slow down if need be and to be the lookout at intersections and in the blind spots. As for the outcome of this call, the apparatus and manpower never made it due to being involved in an accident. You can't help anyone if you don't make it there...
The operator of the apparatus is responsible for the safe delivery the apparatus, since he is behind the wheel. While the officer riding the seat is responsible for the crew and the mission. As you may know, newer apparatus have speedometers on the officer's side to allow for the officer to keep a pulse on the speed of the rig. Agree, that in most departments the officer will share is some of the liability internally.
I would have to agree with you it should be the engineer and when the truck arrives on scene the Captain takes over unless the Batatalion Chief pulls in for that district. The Captain is in charge of the house and the BC is in charge of the district and the engineer is in charge of the truck getting it to the scene and back to the house and making sure in some areas that the truck is ready for the next alarm.Hughie The 57 House
I whole-heartedly agree! It's the driver's responsibility (and our own) to make sure everyone is seated and belted. The driver is responsible for the response and for the safety of everyone on the streets. If the officer notices that the driver is driving erratic or to fast, it's the officer's responsibility to slow that driver down. Like anything in the fire service, it's a team effort. I personally appreciate when the hosemen in the back are looking out for things I may not notice. EVERYONE GOES HOME! Stay safe!
As I instruct our dept as well as some others on Driver Ops I have always inforced that the officer on the rig is still ultimately in charge of the intire crew. I instill in my engineers that is there responsability to drive the apparatus with do respect to crew members as well as the public. This training program has been well recieved by our staff and other FF on the dept whos well being depends on myself as well as our engineers.
Capt. D. Steele FFD
Officer (or senior firefighter if no officer) should ensure all is cool inside. Officer and driver are equally responsible for ensuring seat belt compliance. Driver is responsible for driving and the officer should be acting as a second set of eyes for the driver in the event he/she misses any hazards. Ultimately the driver is the one getting hit criminally for issues that arise from driving, but the driver and officer will be hit civily for injuries or death from safety issues within the crew. The officer in most cases will also be named along with the driver in civil suits for damages to property, injury, or death since both are legally responsible for the safety of the crew and ensuring that they do not put the public in jeopardy.
Its a policy at our department the the driver is responsible for the safe operationof the apparatus but the officer is in charge. The driver is to only drive the truck and follow the main Ohio Law DUE REGARD TO THE PUBLIC. At all red lights they are to slow to a controlled stop and make eye contact before proceding thru a red signal and slow to were a controlled stop can be made on a green signal. Officers are to monitor unsafe act of drivers and correct them will enroute. I know alot of things are going through the officers mind while enroute to a call, but he is to arrive with his crew safely. We always tell our firefighters do not create another problem or emergency. To many attorneys out there and the police may get the driver, But the attorneys will get the officer and everyone else before its done.
In our Department the truck dosnt move without an Officer in that right seat or Capts seat. The Officer is in charge and responsible for the operation of the truck and its occupants. That same Officer would be responsible to his actions in court along with the Driver. That same Officer will answer to his Chief if there is a problem.
Yeah but ultimately in court, it's the person in that seat behind the wheel that gets charged with neglect. NOONE should be getting dressed while the apparatus is rolling, and I also think their is an NFPA standard or certain state laws that prohibit you wearing your helmet in the cab. It's all on the drivers shoulders, the officer should be in charge of the company, but its the driver that should be in charge of the truck