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I Need Another Engine Company. No, Not That One.
I'm reading on another discussion board about the closest engine not being called and having to be "special requested" to actually respond.
Why is this still happening in the fire service. The closest unit should always be dispatched. Several reasons were given for this.
The dumbest one was It was a paid company that wasn't called and they need to be ready to respond in thier own district. WOW so volunteers don't need to be ready for thier own district. Every time we call for mutual aid we're taking units out of thier district.
Being overlooked by dispatch is one thing, not being on the run card is another. One dau someone who knows about the fire service will be impacted by this and will own that fire company.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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I'm with you 100% on this one Craig, but I can think of at least one reason not call the closest maybe more; lack of good or proper equipment and lack of training are 2 biggies. 5in hose comes to mind, not everyone has it, tenders are another one, I'll skip over that 1000gal to get the 3500. All of this is the reasons we preplan and set up box cards.
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Permalink Reply by Rusty Mancini on
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If it's reasons for which Mike and Trainer are suggesting, that makes sense! If it's an ego thing, or bad blood between the two departments, that could cost lives and property loss!! Not good.....!!
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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The only reason that this still occurs is because someone did not take the time to make contact with the city, county or province, in writing, from a lot of people... bringing attention to the fact that the closest emergency response vehicle and personnel were not or are not being utilized, which of course is both a liability concern as well as a personal concern should you, your family or friends be involved in an incident with an increased response time because of politics or games. By bringing this to the attention of anyone with deeper pockets than you, and documenting that you warned or notified the affected agencies of their potential liability, an attorney doing basic research will take that document (public record) and run with it. It would be interesting to ask the grand jury for your area how they feel about this practice. I guarantee you that no one wants a delayed response time. Should someone get hurt, or killed as a result, the obvious negligence should be enough to wake folks up, specially when individuals are specifically named in the suit...
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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As the first due officer, alot of times I will special call certain apparatus from certain departments and it is not always the closest. I try not to deplete the immediate area of rescources. We have MABAS(box alarms) but the officers can call an audible if they deem it necessary.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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I try not to deplete the immediate area of rescources
I agree with Shareef here. Sending the closest engine may not be the most practical, especially if the context here is in regards to mutual aid.
The dumbest one was It was a paid company that wasn't called and they need to be ready to respond in thier own district. WOW so volunteers don't need to be ready for thier own district. Every time we call for mutual aid we're taking units out of thier district.
Not knowing the thread this was stated, it is possible the dept does not have a MA agreement with another dept and thus would require a special call. Secondly if there are multiple stations and companies, the closest engine may actually be kept in house for response in the district and a further pump may be sent in for a more staggered response. Just many variables to contend with and there really is no ultimatum in saying the closest unit should always be dispatched.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Here is how I look at it. It is your town. You set up your run card as you feel it is best. You also have to live with the decisions you make. Now if that includes skipping a town or city to call the next town over so be it. I feel that is OK if that is becasue one town over has something (resources) that you need and your neighbor doesn't.
But if you have a beef with the town or city, then man up and figure it out. I have seen first hand being called to cover a town that had a fire (not called to the scene) the fire was directly accross the street from that town's fire station. We respond flow of traffic for covers. We backed into the station, got out, doffed gear, sat down to eat our dinner, (yes brought it with us) and proceeded to watch as other mutual aid towns arrived on the scene of the fire upwards to 30 minutes after we arrived to cover.
Why? If we were to go directly to the scene, we would be 1st due and establish command, formulate an IAP and then call resources as if it was our town. Someone has to do it right, we are there operating at a fire... just not how they would do it.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Anderson on
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We have been "supposed" to implement a run card system in our county for the last two years. Supposed to automaticly dispatch next closest department(s) on structure fires and major incidents. Someone at the county(Sheriff's Dept.) has decided it would not be a good idea.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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Most of these "turf wars" started long before the present generations of the affected FD's were even born.
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Permalink Reply by Mick Mayers on
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Our jurisdiction is an island. Literally. We have one choice for mutual aid and when they run out, then maybe we have some options. When I call for another engine, it's for the closest one. Thankfully, our sole local mutual aid department is an excellent one and we train together, run some regional special teams together, and they're people we respect. I guess we lucked out.
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Permalink Reply by maricel consolacion on
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I have to agree with the others. Even if we are the farthest responding unit ( always depend on the severity of the case though), we are the ones always called for to assist or respond. Why? Our EMS/Rescue vehicle was donated by the US, a 911 emergency vehicle which is capable of giving better assistance than an ordinary ambulance that can only transport a px to the hospital. Same with the firetrucks, even if there is a running card being followed, once an alarm is verified to be a bigger one, the dispatcher will call on the newer and better firetrucks aside from the ones lined up to run on a specified alarm. For as long as the response capability is not being compromised, i would say it is okay :)
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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Back in the day (70's to late 80's) we used to hear that, usually it was given as a reason we weren't called. I understand you don't want to strip an area but thats why we have cover ups. 1 thing we did to stop that was to not double pull and reduce an engine company from 2 units to 1. A company can pick up the phone and tell dispatch they have another unit available if needed which helps out alot. Also on working alarms you can send a bonus piece if you have it.
Also I understand about needed special equipment. We were called for covers because we had a squrt and were called to assist in PA because we had 2 1000 gal tanks with 1500GPM pumps and 5" hose.
My issue is an intial dispatch or the dispatcher comes back with "receiving several calls" and there is an engine close by or even on the road. If the distance is A-B-C-D-E and the dispatch is A-B-D-E thats a problem especially if C is available. To me the only reason not to call a company is if their on another alarm.
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Permalink Reply by Russ on
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politics, ego's and deluisions of grandure (in my expierence) is one of the biggest dangers in this business. i recall one occurance in which a civilian dispatch supervisor made it known that "he" gets to make the descision on who recievies mutual aid and in what form and strength. i was a volunteer Lieutenant at the time in one of the county departments and to keep the story short i asked him by what right do you get to do that? he tells me that because he is a captain in dispatch, he gets to decide those things. i told him that it is dangerous for you to sit in a dark room downtown and decide what the troops in the field can and cannot have. you are a civilian captain and "you'd better not pull that sh** on me or any other department-if i ask for mutual aid from the moon, you'd better be on the phone to NASA real quick". (that sets him off) he tells me that i am a "volunteer officer" not a "paid professional" and that would have more standing in "his" descision making. i told him that does not matter because i'm on the scene and you are not and again, if you try to manage the scene from dispatch, you will suffer. he pulls out the write up pen for the insubordination charge and we go to "work court" over it. He tells his story and i tell mine. in the end he gets the wake up call from hell and i was almost sad for him having to hear from our division chief almost what i said word for word. the M/A we send is based on who is closest and if a unit is special called, a written reason is required by the chief dispatcher because the M/A agreement is on file and we do not have the time to deal with personality conflicts or who's pissed at who this month because going outside of whats is alredy established creates an operational disruption for us because it causes us to close a new gap created by you (for hopefully a good reason)
M/A agreements exist for smooth operations. going outside of them for BS reasons makes you look unprofessional and could cause problems in coverage. as a former dispatcher and member of a department that i dispatched for, the hardest thing you do in dispatch is learn is to take a "big picture" view of what you do because it adds up. M/a agreements ease those descisions. when you call for mutual aid, not those guys-"those" guys it makes everyone look bad...GOOD SUBJECT!!!
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