RIT/RIC and hoselines

So RIT?RIC and HOSE LINES

SITREP

Recent reported structure fire in my first due, occupants report smoke and flames showing from hot water heater/ furnace, reports all occupants out of residence. Ariving engine reports nothing showing from exterior smell of smoke comming from open front door upon 360. has 2 ff pull 1 3/4 lead to front door. Second due engine to water supply and two ff to RIT.

Now every class I have gone thru tells me RIT/RIC in it self does not have a hose line. Thats what back up crews are for right?

Needless to say fire was out upon investigation from attack team with damage only to the furnace and duct work.

What are your thoughts on RIT/RIC and hose lines? What are your SOP/SOG in this reguard?

Sorry for crappy sentance structure and choppy paragraphs trying to do this from my phone.

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on April 2, 2014 at 6:56pm

If it is necessary to make a fire a multiple alarm fire to cover the incident properly with RIT then that is what should be done. It is one thing to have one RIT for a single family dwelling and quite another to have a single RIT for a large store like Home Depot or a factory. It would seem that one fully staffed RIT should be able to handle a SFD under most circumstances, while it might take 3 or 4 RIT to cover a big box store or a factory. My point being one RIT for those larger structures is nothing more than feel good uselessness.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on April 3, 2014 at 3:06am

It would seem that one fully staffed RIT should be able to handle a SFD under most circumstances

This isn't what you have been saying, Don. You questioned as to who performs a rescue if RIT chooses to deploy a line?

Don, in what realms of RIT are you talking about when it comes to having a handline with the RIT cache? At one point you are asking who performs a rescue if RITchooses to utilize a line, given the circumstance, and now here you are talking of a difference between a single family dwelling and a larger type of structure.

Everything I have been talking about is in regards to the reality that a MAYDAY and subsequently a RIT activation can stem from any type of incident. I reiterated numerous times that in the realms of a first alarm assignment, consititing of a single RIT contingent, the resources of having secondary comapnies take a line for RIT operations may be utilized elsewhere, thus leaving the line as an option for RIT.

You have repeatedly questioned me on who performs a rescue if RIT is utilizing a handline and now you say that when it comes to a SFD, that a single RIT company should be able to handle this. The reality is that most LODDs occur in a SFD and not the commercial structures.

If you say that a multiple alarm assignment should be done to account for RIT and a RIT hoseteam, I ask you to thus justify this to the elected officials. I ask you to sit back in the fire chief's chair and justify sending (in my case) darn near the entire city to a SFD fire and yet still account for the other multitude of calls to respond to. It is definately one thing if conditions warrant further alarms, harder to justify for a single alrm contigent, and were not even talking target hazard or large complexes yet, just the SFD.

I am NOT, I repeat NOT talking about different parameters for RIT. I am not talking about larger structures, target hazards and so forth. Instead when I am talking RIT in a general sense, I am talking about that first alarm contingent, I am talking about SFD's. The reality still remains that a hoseline should be part of a RIT cache. Who actually uses it and deploys with it may vary upon resources available as well as situation specific.....but nonetheless, a line should be part of the RIT cache.

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on April 3, 2014 at 10:44am

John,

If conditions warrant calling an extra company, extra alarm, or even mutual aid to provide RIT then I would do it. My main concern is the safety of all on the fireground, victims AND my firefighters. In my rural county I would love for each FD to form a RIT and when their neighbors have a structure fire the neighbring FD would handle RIT. Heck, I would make it automatic aid for a structure fire and add another RIT for the first box.

I have said at least twice now that I don't necessarily have a problem with the RIT having a hoseline available for their use. What you have failed to answer repeatedly is if the RIT uses the hoseline who is making the rescue? If your crews are all busy and their is no one left to operate RITs line where are the firefighters coming from to assist RIT in the rescue? Because if you are waiting for the next alarm to come in to effect rescue it very well may be too late to even attempt a rescue at that point. If you deem that RIT needs a hoseline why can't your IC call for one more company to come to staff that line?

Frankly, I believe we will simply always have philosphical difference on RIT. I believe your FD will do what it feels is right, just as my career FD did, and just as my 2 POC FDs are striving to do with RIT training.

Stay safe Brother.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on April 3, 2014 at 11:29am

Here is the issue Don. I have said, repeatedly, that a line should be part of the RIT cache, because there are too many variables to account for. The reality is that given the circumstances faced, the best option RIT can do could be keeping fire away from a downed FF and get them air.

When it comes to the actual rescue, I have answered your question, quite simply it is going to vary upon conditions and resources, there is no way and there can be no way to give a definitive answer because of something so variable. There are all sorts of conditions that can be faced in a MAYDAY situation that can not be preplanned or discussed outside of the actual situation. This is why we learn from past incidents, we train, and prepare. There is a reason that we see RIT caches and a reason we RIT specific training and so forth. These are all good, but the reality is that a definitive answer can not be given for situations because nobody can account for the situation that one will be faced with. This is why I have said that a RIT team should have options and part of that option should be a line available.

Instead of trying to argue on who is manning a line for RIT (if companies are being used) or who's effecting rescue, the focus should be on what the dept, and adjoining depts, are doing to get those additional resources. There are enough LODDs and near misses and so forth that should teach us that a single RIT operation will utilize more manpower than what typically is allotted. This is why I believe 2 in 2 out is antiquated, but as Captnjak stated, it is a starting point too, the single company RIT will likly get overwhelmed quickly, but is a better option than 2 in 2 out. The question becomes what a dept has in place to get those additional resources going.

I stated for us, there is a countywide protocol that the next alarm assignment is automatically dispatched in the event of a MAYDAY. The dispatch center here has trained and incorporated that response that resources are automatically sent as opposed to waiting for the IC to call for additional alarms or resources. This was established from the lessons learned from our LODD here in 2006. So it is imperative that in the event of a MAYDAY and a RIT deployment, that additional resources are sent. This is something that should be looked at from a dept standpoint and requires very little training. The resources WILL be needed in a RIT situation.

So to get back to the reason I said that a line should be part of a RIT cache, is to give another tool and option depending upon the situation one is now faced with. Additional resources should automatically be sent when a MAYDAY is called. This answers the question as to who performs the rescue if RIT decides a line is the best option. It will be decided upon by the conditions present and resources available.

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on April 3, 2014 at 11:51am

The biggest difference I see in what you are saying and what I am saying is pretty obvious. I am saying pre-order the resources to be able to handle that MayDay and your SOG is to wait until you have a MayDay and then your dispatch automatically sends more companies. We both have the initial RIT established, it is just when we are ordering more help.

I am not saying your way is wrong for your FD. I am saying quite clearly it would be totally inadequate and too little too late when our help is coming from another volunteer FD with a response time of between 15 and 20 minutes.

The hard truth is most FDs are fooling themselves with a 2 or 4 person RIT. The facts of previous incidents have shown that it takes in many cases far more than that to find downed firefighters, extricate them, and then remove them. So perhaps all that initial RIT is is a feel good thing with no basis in reality. I can tell you this discussion has made me re-evaluate how many people I believe should be on the initial RIT. Now I am beginning to believe it should be 6 or even 8. Yes, I know for a career FD that means 2 companies assigned to RIT, on a volunteer FD it may mean calling mutual aid or a Box immediately on every structure fire call. But then again, are we serious about RIT or doing window dressing?

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Permalink Reply by captnjak on April 5, 2014 at 11:17am

"Additional resources should automatically be sent when a MAYDAY is called. This answers the question as to who performs the rescue if RIT decides a line is the best option."

Yes it answers the question. The answer is no one. The Mayday is put out. RIT has a line. Additional resources are called to perform the rescue. There is nothing "rapid" about this intervention. I believe this is the point that Don also makes. It is IMO a flawed system.

I understand that for some the lack of resources makes all of this a real challenge, with no perfect answers. I also understand that we owe it to ourselves and each other to have a shot at rapid intervention that has a real chance of success.

Generally speaking, I don't like the repositioning of hoselines once they're charged and committed to a particular location within the fire building. In the case of a downed firefighter being threatened by fire I'd reposition the attack line if necessary. Or preferrably a backup line. There should always be a backup line when a line is operating interior. With two lines stretched at a typical single family dwelling fire I think it would be a rare ocurrence in which RIT needed a third line. Once there is a Mayday, the incident priorities change. We all know that fire suppression efforts need to carry on but I'm not going to ignore a downed firefighter while waiting for help to arrive. Let that help go back to firefighting.

I only suggest this as a way to operate when there is a scarcity of resources. It should also be pointed out that members must include in their size up the amount of help that is coming. Overly agressive search should not be conducted when there are not enough resources to support it.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on April 5, 2014 at 1:37pm

Not really Don. I am saying that given a single alarm incident where a single company RIT is established should be ready for any variable and part of that readiness is having a hoseline. I am further saying that a MAYDAY situation is labor intensive and that additional resources should be automatically sent upon a MAYDAY call.

I get what you are saying about "pre-order" of the resources, and I get the circumstances that volunteer and rural depts face, I'm not speaking against this at all. I worked as a volly and I do understand the limitations, sporadic turnouts, distances to cover and so forth, yes, trying to be ready as possible can help. What a "pre-order" does not include is readiness for any number of variables which can be presented.

Again, case in point with Boston, you have a 10 person RIT, which most departments could only dream of for such staffing. Heck, in some departments, this would be an incident turnout. Yet, even with a "pre-order" of such a RIT, the circumstances they faced still overwhelmed them.

The simple point I'm making here is that there are too many variables to account for, there is no way in Hades anybody, from Ben Franklin to the newest junior FF, that could be able to prepare for any given situation. This is why readiness is going to be paramount, and further why a line should be an option.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on April 5, 2014 at 2:25pm

The Mayday is put out. RIT has a line. Additional resources are called to perform the rescue. There is nothing "rapid" about this intervention. I believe this is the point that Don also makes. It is IMO a flawed system.

Tell me what FDNY does then. Are additional alarms not called in the event of a MAYDAY? Can you account for any variable that may be faced in a MAYDAY situation? Should a RIT not be as prepared as possible to save the life of a FF calling a MAYDAY?

I am talking about being as ready as possible to address the variables presented. Nowhere did I say that a RIT must depoly with a line, and I said if they do choose to deploy with one, it is because they found that to be the best option available. When asked on "who performs the rescue" of which that can NOT be possibly answered in this given conversation. The reality is I do not know, nor will I fool anyone else to believe that the answer is there, because the answer does NOT exist here. The ONLY way the question gets answered is when those variables are met and resources used. Even then, what we will know from the lessons learned is that readiness will remain our best option.

What we can answer for sure is that a MAYDAY means the worst case scenario occurred, a FF is in trouble and needs help. We know that a RIT operation can be labor intensive and sometimes the situations can overwhelm even the best staffed RIT. We know the fire does not care about a MAYDAY and operations need to continue to give a MAYDAY FF the best chance. Aside from those known factors, everything else is situation specific, and we also know for certain, no two situations are exactly alike.

I don't like the repositioning of hoselines once they're charged and committed to a particular location within the fire building. In the case of a downed firefighter being threatened by fire I'd reposition the attack line if necessary

I never once said anything about repositioning, nor even charged lines for RIT, instead I said a line should be a part of a RIT cache, as a tool to use, given the circumstances. Sure is easy to sit here on an internet forum, and say what you would do and so forth, but you can't speak for any given situation. Sure is easy to say you'd reposition an attack line, well what if was your attack team that just called a MAYDAY? Sure reposition your back up team right? Yep, you have one line operating in a MAYDAY situation, who's backing them up? Do see what I'm saying here? There are too many variables and in this topic, one can "what if" anything, we will still not get a for certain answer other than what I've already been saying.

With two lines stretched at a typical single family dwelling fire I think it would be a rare ocurrence in which RIT needed a third line.

So what if it may be a rare chance? Are you saying there is no chance? No you aren't because you know it would be stupid to say so. The reality is that a MAYDAY situation can occur in any size and type of structure, RIT needs to be as ready as possible for the variables they may face. Redeploying attack and backup lines may not be the option in a given situation, nobody can answer with certainty the circumstances one may face.

Once there is a Mayday, the incident priorities change. We all know that fire suppression efforts need to carry on but I'm not going to ignore a downed firefighter while waiting for help to arrive. Let that help go back to firefighting.

Again, this is easy to say here, but doesn't account for the circumstances that are faced in a MAYDAY situation. What this statement DOES confirm, is what I said about additional companies being automatically sent in the event of a MAYDAY declaration. You mention it right here, you will need "help", where that help gets deployed and tasked with will vary.

I only suggest this as a way to operate when there is a scarcity of resources.

Not sure what Boston sends for a first alarm assignment, but I would be willing to bet, it is still more than what most departments send. That fatal fire went to nine alarms. Sure seems like a lot of help was sent.

Overly agressive search should not be conducted when there are not enough resources to support it.

This seems to suggest that a MAYDAY situation only faces a search team. I highly doubt that is what you mean by this, but I have to ask as to regards of this question what do you mean? A MAYDAY can happen to anyone in any task, at any time, that is a lot of variables to account for.

Let me be clear here. When it comes to a MAYDAY situation, there are too many variables and unknows that will face an IC, a RIT, and operating units to be able to give a definitive answer. No table top exercise, no preplan, no discussion will be able to account for the situation one is handed. I am not saying that all units operating are not working to get that FF out, but the reality is that the fire does not stop. We can not ignore the fire situation because of a MAYDAY. Our best option may be to keep the fire in check to facilitate a rescue and that may mean an attack and back up can not be repositioned. When it comes to RIT, they have to do what they can and use what they got to get to a MAYDAY FF. Who does the rescue if RIT chooses a line? I don't know? The RIT team itself may be able to, a search team could be redeployed to assist in RIT, it could be other incoming units. Who can say for certain? What IS certain is more help will be needed, get them going with a MAYDAY declaration.

There are just too many variables and circumstances to account for and any and every situation is going to be incident specific. May as well be as ready as possible, and that includes having a line available. Not giving that option or saying a line should not be available for RIT is doing every FF a disservice, we owe it to those who became a LODD to let their lessons NOT be in vain. We owe to our living to hopefully prevent another LODD.

I only hope those other FFN members here who are too afraid to chime in at least consider what is being said. Don't let your brother and sister FFs down, don't let those FF LODDs be in vain. Train, prepare, train some more, but try and be as ready as possible.

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on April 5, 2014 at 4:56pm

John what is the staffing on your initial RIT for a SFD? My point is, and as I said I am intensely re-evaluating this, we have established that 4 is the base RIT for a SFD. Now looking at it if we only had the staffing to establish a 4 person RIT my command decision would be to call in at least one more company, even if that meant mutual aid, to bolster the RIT to a minimum of 8 people. To me 8 is a far more realistic number for RIT for an SFD than 4. I would order that additional staffing immediately and not wait until a MayDay ocurred.

I guess I just view it as differing view points trying to get the same job done.

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Permalink Reply by captnjak on April 5, 2014 at 7:26pm

FDNY has a special signal to notify dispatcher and request help for trapped firefighter(s) requiring removal. We also have a RIT team of 5 firefighters and an officer, plus a squad company and a rescue company with the same staffing, all of which are assigned on a first alarm for structural fire (along with certain other incidents). On top of the 4 engines and two trucks assigned. This is for all fires, not just Maydays.The rescue and squad companies are often not used at all for search, vent and extinguishment assignments. They are generally assigned to work as per orders of IC. Often they are held at command post and not used. RIT team is solely assigned to RIT functions. No routine firefighting duties whatsoever. If they are put to work for firefighting, a new RIT is dispatched but this is very rare and severely frowned upon. Maydays are rare. Maydays that can't be handled by units on first alarm are extremely rare.

We get a lot of help and we get it real fast. Most departments don't, so what we do may not really be relevant.

The answer to "who performs the rescue?" is that RIT performs the rescue. With any help that is immediately available. The help assigned to respond after the Mayday is given is not on scene. What good are they in asisting with the rescue? Time is absolutely NOT on our side. Where are they coming from? When will they arrive?

It doesn't matter that there are many variables. We can't use the variables to let us off the hook in having an answer as to who performs the rescue. It almost sounds like a copout. If your RIT plan does not have the RIT team responsible for the rescue, then what good is your RIT plan? Why have a RIT team?

We can't address every possible scenario on an internet forum. We agree on that. One thing that should not vary is who performs the rescue.

I did not mean that you suggested moving hoselines. I was the one suggesting it.

If a downed firefighter's rescue requires protection of a handline and no unit is available to stretch and operate it, I would reposition an existing line. Then the RIT can perform the rescue, or at least begin to. With limited resources I believe this gives you the best real chance of a successful rescue.

I did not mean to indicate that search was the only function that could result in a Mayday. Clearly, any firefighter in any function could end up in trouble. My point is that ALL members performing ALL functions should operate within reasonable parameters based on support available. An engine company alone on the scene at a serious fire should not advance as agressively as if there were 6 units on scene. Searching of immediate fire area or seriouly exposed positions above or adjacent should also be done less agressively if there is a single unit on scene. Even with two in two out, because if you get in real trouble two isn't enough to rescue you in all likelihood.

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Permalink Reply by Derek J Sinesi on April 5, 2014 at 9:31pm

John, You make some great point's here. It would be nice if others on here would chime in on this subject. This is a very important topic and would be interesting to see how others set up there RIT.

Don, I'm with you really looking at the numbers we have on a RIT team.

Captnjak, You also make a good point on smaller departments not being so aggressive with only one engine crew on scene.

I would think that with RIT fresh in all our minds that everyone on here reading this forum; Would go back and reevaluate their RIT/FAST programs. From the numbers to when they are activating a team,right down to what tools they use. Many great ideas and we never know what is going to happen and when.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on April 6, 2014 at 12:21am

I am going to speak in some generalities here before addressing individuals. I feel it is imperative to give members some insight as to where I'm coming from and why I have been adament that a line should be part of a RIT cache. At this point it is getting tiring repeating the same thing over and over again and arguing against having another option in a MAYDAY situation I find disheartening.

I further find it a great disservice to the fire service and a disservice to the lessons that should be learned from LODDs. In the OP's original post he mentions "Now every class I have gone thru tells me RIT/RIC in it self does not have a hose line. Thats what back up crews are for right?". To me, if one calls themselves an instructor and takes away another tool and another option is doing a disservice. It takes really nothing to pull another line, it gives the RIT crew another option, and yes, there are ways that a rescue of a downed FF can be facilitated by utilizing a handline.

So from a personal standpoint, I was a member of a RIT team where we lost a FF. The attack team made entry to look for fire and made their way to the basement. The back up team was getting in place and a search team just made entry. The floor collapsed sending the search team into the basement, the floor collapse also severed the attack team's line, the hole that has just been made cut off the backup team from being able to make entry the same way in. The floor collapse created a backdraft, breaking out every window that was once intact and there was fire now raging out of the main door the crews entered and the windows on either side of it. There were 5 personnel trapped in the basement. (Sound eerily familiar in a recent event?)

At the time our protocol was the third due engine company was RIT. We just arrived on scene, obtained the initial RIT cache from the truck and no sooner did we set that down near the entry that the backdraft occurred and seconds later a MAYDAY initiated. There was no attack team (they were trapped) There was no search team (they were trapped) The back up team was working their ass off to control the fire, but was struggling. The truck company was working to try and get access from the rear of the home and as RIT, we went to make a rescue. The amount of fire was overwhelming, yes as a RIT we grabbed a line. We forced entry to a side door and found another set of stairs. We dropped the line we had and made access to the basement, only to once again be met with significant fire load. We tried breaching walls only to be met with concrete walls on the other side. Two members stayed downstairs while two others went to get another line to make some headway. We worked until our low air alarms went off and had to exit. The attack team was able to get out by following the break in fire when the back up team would swirl the nozzle and were able to get by the back up team. One FF from the search team was able to hear the truck company banging a tool and shining a hand lantern and she was able to follow that out. The one FF who died was in a room with one access in and about a 4 ft section of studded wall, everything else was concrete.

From this, there was no "ignoring of the MAYDAY" because every other crew was working to rescue those who were trapped, despite the fact they may not have been assigned RIT. The amount of fire and lack of crews to man a line for RIT was out of the question. The amount of fire made accessing the fallen FF without a line out of the question, without potential for the RIT team to become compromised and add to the MAYDAY.

It is this incident from 2006 that remains paramount in my mind. This latest loss of FFs in Boston is very similar to the same one I personally encountered and we have reports the RIT team in Boston utilized a line. From a dept standpoint our operations changed where a line would be added to the RIT cache as another option. The dept underwent significant FF rescue classes to train on MAYDAY, RIT, and so forth at an intense level. The dept obtained and outfitted every engine and truck with a RIT cache and a RIT air bag where multiple bottles can be used. The county as a whole enacted a MAYDAY protocol that the next alarm would automatically be sent.

So when I speak about variables and unpredictability in a MAYDAY situation, I am speaking in a broad sense and in general. I am not addressing how any certain dept operates nor what they send for RIT, etc, but instead in a broad sense, that there can be no definitive answer given. When it came to the question posed to me of "Who does the rescue if RIT uses a line", in the situation I was in, the truck company was able to get one FF out and another 3 were able to get themselves out. The RIT team worked until low air and switched out bottles.

When I say that another alarm level should automatically be sent, I am not talking that the next alarm is there to take over RIT, but instead to be used where needed. In our case we needed another RIT team, another couple hose teams, and another truck because of the resources being used in the MAYDAY situation. The fact is that a RIT operation can be labor intensive, you will have crews having to switch air bottles, and other factors that may be faced. Essentially you will need people.

So to Don:

I guess I just view it as differing view points trying to get the same job done

Don, don't look at this from a singular perspective, but in broader terms. Even if you have an 8 person RIT, can you say for sure that is enough? Probably not. Even if you decide to ask for more staffing for RIT, is this your protocol? If you are not available and one of your depts has a structure fire, is such staffing for 8 person RIT and to mitigate the incident priorities automatically dispatched every time?

My point, as I addressed here, is that there will be more to the circumstances that makes it imperative for extra alarms to be sent. Say there is a significant fire event without a MAYDAY, chances are an IC will pull personnel out and regroup, perhaps calling for another alarm because crews will start getting exhausted, low on air, etc. With a MAYDAY, there is likely a good chance you will ask more from your companies, having crews manning lines stay inside longer, etc. Well what happens when their air gets low? Who gets redeployed and so forth? Even if you "pre-order" for RIT, there will still be issues on the fireground that will need to be addressed. We do not call in other alarms to respond to the RIT itself, but the fact that there is a finite amount of air for crews to operate inside and you will be asking a lot from your companies on scene. You will need extra help.

To Captnjak:

The question I asked as to FDNY was rhetorical because it really doesn't matter. The reason I asked it was that given the circumstances, additional help would be needed. Yet what you describe for FDNY RIT is what some depts may send just for a single alarm.

Same thing I have been saying, with the exception that RIT specifically performs the rescue. As in the situation I explained above, it was the crews immediately available working to get 4 of 5 FFs out. The help being dispatched is not about just mitigating the RIT but to fill in where needed. FFs will be running low on air, FFs will be exerted and so forth. Where are they coming from and when do they arrive, well that depends upon the depts themselves, doesn't it?

Not using variables to let off the hook, instead it is about the impossibility to answer any hypothetic situation with a definitive answer, it can't be done. Variables absolutely matter, because it is about being as prepared as possible. Having a line is another tool and and other option. Copout, my ass, you can plan all you want, but it will never specically answer the circumstances in a given situation. You mentioned what you have for a RIT compliment, in most depts, that can easily be a second alarm contigent. Not really practical from a dept POV to have every incident be essentially a multi alarm incident because one doesn't feel that a line should be an option for RIT. As for prepared, as mentioned before, a line can be used to get to and even remove a FF, if one doesnt think it is possible, then I would question that RIT plan.

We can't address every possible scenario on an internet forum. We agree on that. One thing that should not vary is who performs the rescue.

How so? You already mentioned you have a rescue and squad company in conjunction with the RIT. What would it matter if the squad company rescued a FF calling a MAYDAY or if it was the RIT team? What would it matter if an attack or back up team or even a search team was able to intervene and rescue the FF calling a MAYDAY? Why does or why should the rescue of a FF fall specifically on the RIT team?

Disagree. Such an answer was not a consideration in the reality I personally faced. Such an answer wasn't an option in Boston. Such an answer becomes too finite without considering the situation that one may face. I say give as many options as you can, give a downed FF the very best chance you can. I find it a copout to believe repositioning a line can be so easily conveyed without being in a particular situation. The worst case scenario just happened, I would say that means use whatever means necessary to give the FF(s) their best chance of making it out.

Again, we owe it to those LODDs to learn from their lessons and we owe it to other FFs to prevent more LODDs. Have the training, practice, learn, train some more, have as many options available because there is no set standard answer. Have a line as part of your RIT cache, it takes near nothing to pull and have ready and can also be utilized to rescue a FF.