The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Training vs. Experience
I joined the local fire department when I was 16 years old as a junior, acquiring my Firefigter 1 training around the time I turned 18 and became a front line firefighter. I am now 20 years old and currently hold my Level 1 and Level 2 firefighting, vehicle extrication, managing company tactical operations, ICS-100, Incident Safety Officer, Haz-Mat Ops, Traffic Management Guidelines, and Medical First Responder. I also have now been appointed at 1 of my departments 3 training officers as well as the strong possibility of becoming a Lieutenant on the 2nd due Engine company.
My main concern is that I will not be taken seriously with these roles by the older memebers of the department who although they do not have as much training as myself, have more experiance and more calls under their belt. Is it right for them to not take me seriously, or for myself to even hold such positions? How can I portray myself as knowledgable to an older group of firefighters who may not nessicarily agree or want to abide by new firefighting and rescue techniques? Is there anyone else who has faced or is facing the same issue?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
-
IMO, both are valuable. The issue I see here is the age factor and certs as a condition of basing experience, as opposed to training. Dept politics is always going to be a factor, but the issue should be about how YOU conduct yourself which matters.
IMO, I would say relax, get some years under your belt before rushing towards an officer role. While you may have the certs, they are only one part of the picture and holding a rank only goes far if the people don't respect it. It seems to me you are trying to obtain a rank position based on your certs alone and at a young age, can significantly turn people off. There is more to leadership than either experience or certifications, it is about attitude as well as maturity. At 20 years old, I would bet you have not really been in situations to show maturity, nor even experienced life's difficulties as other may perceive them. At 20, you are still a kid in most aspects and just getting a rank based off your certs, doesn't exude leadership....it just shows you can retain enough knowledge to puke back information to get a piece of paper. It doesn't account for interactions with crew members, working with the public and so forth.
From my standpoint, my advice would be to hold off a bit on the promotion aspect. If you are concerned about older members taking you serious, then show them you can be serious, that means taking some time to experience life and work as a crewmember for awhile before looking for the leadership rank. Respect the experience and service of older members and don't be concerned about your certifications as a testiment to your readiness. You can incorporate new ideas or techniques, but be ready to compromise and use other people's ideas as well. Be receptive to criticism. Most of all, showing you can take your lumps as a younger member and slowly working towards a rank position goes further in the realm of obtaining respect than thumbing certs and education. I would say give it a couple years before seeking an officer spot.....that alone can show that you value experience and show you can have patience than just falling back on what some instructor taught you to be able to pass a test.
-
Permalink Reply by Jared Smith on
-
I agree 100% on everything you have said, but I didn't make myself clear in my initial post. Officer positions within my department are appointed, and I have been told by the current company officers that they are considering appointing me into this position to see how it pans out. At the moment there is a major lack of nessecary credentials within my department to be a company officer. With this, they are giving me a role where if I do end up taking it, there will be a small chance of me taking direct control over company operations as there will be an acting company Captain over
myself, who is an ex-Chief. If the position does become mine, I will ride it out for a while and see how it works. If all goes well, it all goes well. If I feel like I don't receive the recognition needed for a Company officer, I will step down from the position.
-
Permalink Reply by Rick on
-
Jared,
First off - I personaly believe you will find the "Older Guys" with less training will welcome your interaction.
You sound like your working hard to increase your educational skills - Bravo! As far as being an Officer - take the "Job" - let it be know your doing just that - accepting the responsibility for not only your actions but their safety as well.
Age or rank should not be an excuse or reason for anyone to respect and depend on your leadership skills. Your actions should be what speaks for you. Notice I said, "Actions" - not attitude - be a good fire fighter - be a compassionate leader - be the friend you have been.
Education and certs are like badges - wear it proud - instill pride in others and sooner or later the "Older Guys" will stand next to you anywhere. They didnt get to be "Older Fire Fighters" by accident and you won't become one without their support!
Good Luck - stand tall and dont get ahead of yourself. Be Safe!
-
Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
-
Ditto John and Rick and above all --- patience!
Look at the entire situation as a positive opportunity, not a scary challenge. Be the best you can be and instill confidence.
Best of luck when you receive this next honor. And before long --- you'll be one of the "old guys," but the department will be much better having an old guy WITH training.
-
-
I have been told by the current company officers that they are considering appointing me into this position to see how it pans out.
If that is the case, I would say good luck. However, from my standpoint, I would look to take on some of the extra responsibility without taking on the rank. That way you will be doing much of the duties, but show that you understand limitations to work your way up to the responsibility in which an officer rank entails. Essentially you can show you have the ability as well as the certifications to do the job and that can help alleviate issues of rank and little experience.
From my standpoint, I disagree with the choice to appoint the rank and position to "see how it pans out". To me, that is setting up for failure in a way, as well as makes it tougher to get that respect to go along with the rank. Basically, you would be taking on the duties on an interim basis, let the dept hold off on appointing the rank for a time, show you can do the job before you take on the rank. I know I would have a ton more respect and more receptive to ideas from someone who comes across as looking to actually earn the rank instead of having it inferred upon you to see how it pans out. Leadership is not about the bugles or rank, if the dept can hold off in appointing the rank for a time being, I would think that would be the best way to go. It shows humility along with ability.
-
Permalink Reply by Robert Barbarini on
-
Jared . . I was there many years ago. let me say this. Your attutude will go a long way, dont go in like a know it all and your way is the only way. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat you may find out by asking the older guys what they think and working together with some of the old ways and some of the new way. They may work well together. There is the book way, the class way and they way it works. Ask for their input and have them show you and you show them you both may come around and you may find they will respect you more. I now am one of those old guys I see alot of young kids come in like wild fire but dont slow down to see what works they believe everything they read in books and hear in class. Be cautious and patient. Test things to make sure they work and make sure they work for YOUR department.
-
Permalink Reply by Derek J Sinesi on
-
Jared, I was on the department for 9 years before taking a officer spot. If the "old guys" don't respect you now they won't when you become a officer either. I would have to agree with John on this one. Rick stated be the freind you need to be. Remember when you are out on a call and you are a line officer you are not anyones freind you are a leader and have a job to do. This will make some upset but it is the way it needs to be. You can be a freind when off duty. I do congratulate you on all your training and your willingness to step up. But there will be some hard lesson's learned and they are kinda setting you up for failure on see how it pans out. Good luck to you what ever you deciede and stay safe.
-
-
If the "Older guys" don't respect you - that has no bearing on your job performance. Do your best - be considerate - work safe - as someone else posted don't go in like a know it all - maybe more like "I am new at this - lets learn together."
Don't worry so much about what others think - were they there getting trained when you were - are you doing this to impress them - examine your own motives. If this is going to lead to a career for you - if this is what you want to do - GO FOR IT !
Earn it everyday - work safe!
-
Permalink Reply by Moose on
-
We have this issue in my area, but its purely the young guys who are part of the "overnight sensation" generation who think that taking Firefighter I makes them experts.
What certain people are forgetting is that experience is a mix of the two things; training, then using that training in the field under the guidance of senior firefighters and officers to gain real life experience, see real situations and be a part of mitigating them, seeing the different tactics used for real instead of in a power point presentation. You need to take that training, and the advice of the salty dogs in your department and form them into experience. Without both of the ingredients, your just a well educated firefighter or a self proclaimed know-it-all.
Jared, you are obviously a well intentioned firefighter looking to gain knowledge, or you wouldnt be asking this question. My comments above are not pointed at you, just general comments, but you seem to be heading in the right direction. Keep going that way, learn what you can, and listen to all of the senior guys in your department, learn what you can. If you are appointed then dont be afraid to ask for advice and dont act like a cocky know-it-all. If you dont know, ask for help. Learn. Pass on what you learn to the others and work to do whats best fot the department and your crews all the time.
Stay Safe and good luck to you.
-
-
Moose - Bravo, well stated.
Jared - read what Moose posted - two or three times - print it out and save it.
You need to take that training, and the advice of the salty dogs in your department and form them into experience. Without both of the ingredients, your just a well educated firefighter or a self proclaimed know-it-all.
Jared, you are obviously a well intentioned firefighter looking to gain knowledge, or you wouldnt be asking this question.
My comments above are not pointed at you, just general comments, but you seem to be heading in the right direction.
Keep going that way, learn what you can, and listen to all of the senior guys in your department, learn what you can.
If you are appointed then dont be afraid to ask for advice and dont act like a cocky know-it-all. If you dont know, ask for help. Learn. Pass on what you learn to the others and work to do whats best fot the department and your crews all the time.
Stay Safe and good luck to you.
Jared - like I stated - copy this response by Moose - if promoted , take it be humble and then move forward.
-
Permalink Reply by Dean Bailey on
-
Jared,
I am a veteran of the fire service for nearly 25 years, not only do I have the experience, but I also have a lot of certifications. That being said if the department is looking to put you in a place, then listen to what they are saying. To me it sounds like they are trying to set you up for future advancement. Do the best you can and learn all you can about the position they are wanting to put you into. Once you have settled into that position and are working pretty good, look at gaining more information in the next position above you so you can have a knowledge of that position as well. I am a training instructor with my volunteer department as well as at my local community college, and I see a lot of the negativity you are referring to, but the generation of firefighters is beginning to change for the better in my opinion. You will find more and more that even the experienced folks will be more open to what you have to say, the fire service is changing every day and either they can be stuck in the past or they can come into the present and look to the future!!!!
Good luck with all your endeavors.
DB
-
Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
-
Keep this in mind. Readjng some books & passing tests, doesn't make you a firemen or a officer. The time on the job that builds onto that foundation of learning along with maturity. These things are what molds you into a fireman then a officer.. What many young guys on the job fail to keep in mind or even realise is that the books & classes you have taken or will take, didn't just fall out of a dalmation butt. Those older guys with 20, 30 or 40+ yrs on the job. They took there experiences and wrote those books. All these ifsta books. Started out with those old guys sitting around the firehouse kitchen table talking about there jobs. One or two of them said I should write this down.
A few years ago during FDIC a young man in his early 20s stood with a group of firemen. A couple were from his department back home. The rest were Indianapolis firemen & a couple other depts.
A conversation had started about extrication techneques. A older firman with about 40yrs.on begain to speak about diffrent things he had run into over the yrs. The young man listened and after the older firman had stopped speaking. He proceeded to put his two cents in telling about the extrication class he had taken & the book on technical rescue & extrication he had been reading. He went on and on about the new things that he had learned. The young man was obviously trying to wow the old guy with all the new things he had learned.
As the group split up & the older fireman went his way. One of the fireman looked at the young guy and said. " That book you were talking about, that fireman you were telling about it." Yes the young man replied. "Well, he wrote it."
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
