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Permalink Reply by Moose on July 2, 2012 at 9:41am

I agree Derek.  I saw another video on Youtube prior to this topic being written and I sadly cant find the video anymore or I would post it here.  The video is taken from a neighbor, and they show a Well Drilling rig parked in the yard with the well drilling crew starting the pump on the rig and some more workers trying to spray water from a hose with no nozzle at a fire in the back of a house.  Guess what happened?

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Permalink Reply by Lloyd MacIntosh on July 5, 2012 at 11:57pm

Sir, while I commend you for volunteering for those so many years, it is truly a  miracle that you lasted that long. Big City, Backwoods or anywhere. Yes the job needs to be done, but done safely. Why risk your health and future for a situation you did not create?

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Permalink Reply by Bob Callahan on July 7, 2012 at 8:51am

And how many videos are out there showing well trained, well equipped urban firefighters attacking a vehicle fire, which is no less dangerous in terms of cancer, without an SCBA, or with an SCBA on thier backs but no masks.

I could probably find 20 videos in 5 minutes that also show urban firefighters on the interior not masked up until the smoke "gets bad enough that we need it", or working on a roof taking a feed, or operating an exterior line in the smoke when they have access to modern, lightweight SCBA and cylinders. In most cases the SCBA is right in their backs but they choose not to use it.

I have no idea of the circumstances of this video, but I do know that Beaverton, AL, according to the latest  data has a population of 226 with a median income of less than 13K per year. That tells me there likely isn't very much money to fund the fire department, So I have no idea what they have for PPE or SCBA.though i suspect it's not the modern stuff with nice light carbon fiber bottles.. I have no idea if the other firefighters are mutual aid (which is what I suspect) and how much work have they done already and how fatigued they are.

To me the issue here is not being in gear, as he could have easily been 10'  farther back and not taken in any smoke, but the training issue regarding the opposing hoselines, which drove the smoke towards him.

Unless we know the full details, or you have rural experience, maybe you should just sit back and let this pass.

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Permalink Reply by Rob on July 7, 2012 at 9:56am

 

WOW where do some of you guys come from? capcityff  the same flame that burns your ass will burn mine. fire doesnt burn any different in the city as it does in a small rural town. Vol firefighter may see more fire then you do as they are on call 24/7 while you are on shift work. The fire equipment  that  you use is made by the same manufacture as the vol uses. and as for training alot of a vol fire dept training is as good or not better then what you have. |i have seen where cities with career firefighters have to cut bugdets , so crew sizes are cut back and equipment is breaking down and not being fixed. now back to the video where there are guys with no PPE on. alot of times they have PPE just dont want to wear it. they should have been pulled out of the postion they are in and a member dressed in PPE put in his place. The  person who is IC should have  their ass kicked for allowing it to happen.    We have all see videos or photos of FF from career

depts where a ff is doing the wrong thing. So lets try to stop it. firefighter safety is NO. 1 . 

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on July 7, 2012 at 11:29am

Bobby,

I will say you ar consistent...You will do whatever you can to defend inadequate and poorly trained VFDs.  I don't give a damn where the VFD is, it is the DUTY and OBLIGATION of that fire department to properly equip and train their members.  You don't like that thought, my answer too damn bad.  You want to jump up and down and rant and rave about a career firefighter climbing 2 steps up on a ladder to take a baby from a firefighter inside without having a helmet or facepiece on and justify these um, firefighters, with absolutely NO GEAR of anykind on operating a hoseline in the hot zone.  You are such a hypocrite that I am surprised you can look at yourself in the mirror.

 

Further who said a word about carbon fiber SCBA?  There are quite a few smaller rural FDs around my area still using aluminum and even some steel cylinders.  Why?  Because they are cheap, last forever, and they need other things more than they need lightweight bottles.  But they still have good working adequate SCBA.

 

I am not surprised that instead of agreeing with everyone that the 2 men sprying water on the fire from the outside shouldn't be there, you praise their volunteer spirit and say they should back up 10 feet.  Come on LA, so a guy with all his gear on other than a mask and helmet, OUTSIDE of the building , would have been reprimanded by you but these guys get a pass.  You sir are a joke, a buffoon, as well as a world class hypocrite.

 

Being a volunteer doesn't exempt you from operating safely, wearing your full gear, and looking like a bunch of yokels,  Sorry to tell you there is NO excuse for this, especially since there are other guys there in PROPER PPE.  Funny thing is...would you expect these guys to be covered by worker's compensation?  Or any other department insurance if they were injured?  Because I for damn sure believe their FD would be fined up the wazoo for not providing proper PPE.  I can't even imagine th shit storn that would have occurred if they had been killed.  On top of the lawsuits filed by family once a ambulance chasing lawyer got involved.  Oh yes, Bobby...it is absolutely wonderful...NOT! 

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on July 7, 2012 at 12:00pm

Seriously Rob,

If you believe any VFD sees the fire load that DC does I say put down the crack pipe and get into rehab.  Further if you seriously believe ANY volunteer firefighter is on call 24/7/365 you are due for a reality check.  I am a paid on call firefighter for 2 FDs out where I live and it is readily apparent that NO ONE is on call 24/7/365, even the most dedicated volunteer.  So you can stow that nonsense.  

 

Dance and sing, through smoke and mirrors, try to deflect it to a career versus volly fight all you want.  there is NO DEFENSE for their actions and if you really look at it rationally even YOU know that.  It is made even worse by the fact that at least 2 guys WITH PPE are on scene and could easily take over those hoselines.

 

Firefighter safety should be Number 1, but apparently it is okay for vollies to shred career guys, but completely inapprorpriate for career guys to shred obvious glaring safety issues with volunteer.  Ah, there it is again, the sweet smell of hypocrisy.

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Permalink Reply by capcityff on July 7, 2012 at 12:01pm

Are you being serious right now?  If you are then wow... Our stats are public though so if it's that hard for you to believe then look it up yourself.  We actually ran over 1500 the other day after a storm hit.  

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Permalink Reply by capcityff on July 7, 2012 at 12:11pm

I'm not sure what's so confusing about my post earlier.  I went and read it again.  Yes, fire is fire.  No, we do not operate even close to how the other does.  I HAVE worked for smaller departments. I DO volunteer right now.  So I know what it's like on the other side.  Unless you worked for a large urban city, I'm not sure you can say the same.  

Nowhere did I put down volunteers.  Like I said, I am one.  However you have to acknowledge that the tactics are different.  A small rural city with poor response times will often pull up on a larger fire.  This requires defensive tactics like using a line from the outside.  We have staffed engines with quick response times that can make aggressive interior attacks often.  It changes the game completely.

My fire equipment is NOT made by the same company considering he's wearing no equipment at all.  Don Catenacci covered a few other good points and he also understands the differences considering he works for different departments from what I get from his posts range from an urban suburb of Milwaukee to more rural departments.

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Permalink Reply by Moose on July 9, 2012 at 8:21am

Rob, with all due respect brother, I do not know you but your post about training in volunteer departments being the same if not better...Is very very wrong on multiple levels.  I am a volunteer fire captain with 23 years in the service and I will stand firm on the training issue; Career brothers and sisters see way more training then we do initially and annually hands down.  240 Hours initial Basic Training compared to 78 hours for Firefighter I Training in the volunteer side?  If you think that is better than you need to re-assess your training standards.

Weekly drills in station (when not responding to calls) on the career side and only one monthly drill (If your lucky to get the manpower) on the volunteer side and the only annual requirement for us volunteers is the 8 hour annual OSHA refresher???

I respect your opinion and you have the right to have it, but more volunteers need to stop with the "My *&^% Is bigger than yours" argument with our career bretheren and start to lobby more with the government to get strict training requirements for us as well.  After all, as you stated, we fight the same fires and ride and use the same equipment, so why shouldnt we be held to the same training standards as the career gang?  Its unacceptable, and we need to affect change, change for better training requirements for volunteers.

Stay Safe Rob.

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on July 9, 2012 at 1:23pm

Moose,

I could not possibly agree more with this post. 

Thanks for saying it far more eloquently than me.

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Permalink Reply by Bob Callahan on July 9, 2012 at 3:46pm

Then be prepared for some areas without much in the way of fire protection.

 

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on July 9, 2012 at 4:46pm

I think the discussion about a fire department in Oregon and this one pretty much prove your point, and Moose's.  They are little more than an organized mob with access to water.

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