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NYC policemen and firefighters are not invited to the 10th anniversary ......
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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I posted a video also.... check it out! All the truth
So what Derek? Have you physically been down to the WTC site in the last few weeks to actually see it? It is a construction site, a huge, construction site, the Freedom tower is about 25 to 30 stories high already. There is a lot of equipment, machinery, scaffolding, and so on at the site, with huge walls around it. The space around the site is limited, you are talking several blocks worth or area that is difficult to transverse, let alone have enough room for people who actually lost loved ones that day.
Logistically, you have to worry about security, the shear number of people, etc, etc. In the WTC alone there was just over 2000 victims, this is a lot of family members who SHOULD be invited to a ceremony, should they be told to limit family members to a couple so there is room for first responders?
I don't like the idea that first responders aren't invited, but given the logistics and the space limitations, I truly understand the reasoning taken here. What I disagree with is this emotional, knee-jerk reactions of such a post and copy and paste FB mentality without any regards to the overall picture. You and a few others here are viewing this as a snub of first responders, instead of seeing the logistics of the situation. There were around 90,000 first responders, there just isn't enough space for everyone to be there. I sure hope there is another ceremony or recognition for first responders, but I see no problem trying to keep the focus on the victims and for the families.
It is easier to let the emotions run the decisions than the big picture, but one needs to step back and look at the bigger picture here. The space is limited, there really can be only so many people in such a limited space. Look at logistics, not knee-jerk reactions.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Dennis Leary, actor from the television series Rescue Me was quoted with this tweet:
NYC firefighters were not invited to the 10th anniversary of 9/11 at Ground Zero. They weren't invited on that day in 2001 either. They just showed up.
My personal opinion here is that sheer numbers of emergency responders numbering in the tens of thousands would definitely be an impact on the event. Attempts to limit the number of folks attending is totally understandable. However, with that said, what makes absolutely no sense is having politicians attend in place of families from the 343 FDNY firefighters that lost their lives that day. To not include these families to me is the most troubling issue here and a disgrace. Having at a minimum representatives or something to include the rescuers seems appropriate. But then, politicians are attending the event, and getting paid for being there at the same time according to many comments on the blogs.
Politicians should give up their seat for families that lost their dads... Having family members who lost loved ones in the building(s) collapse along side families who lost their firefighter dad's is how this should be done. Politicians had nothing to do with the response or rescue and as many people have already commented, were running away from the incident verses the firefighters who ran toward the incident.
I hope the media broadcasts these individuals faces so the folks watching the event on television will know which politicians used the event for personal gain and status verses doing the right thing.
There is never a wrong time for doing the right thing. I hope they do the right thing.
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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what makes absolutely no sense is having politicians attend in place of families from the 343 FDNY firefighters that lost their lives that day. To not include these families to me is the most troubling issue here and a disgrace.
Where does is say that the families of firefighters, NYPD, PA et. al. won't be allowed to attend?
What I read is that 9/11 responders aren't invited en masse but, just like every year when they read the names of ALL of those killed in the towers, they include firefighters et. al.
This has nothing to do with ignoring 9/11 responders, or any disrespect to FDNY, as all too often happens 'some' people think it is and should always be about, firefighters. And those people then create an issue where there isn't one.
So to the OP, show me specifically where it says that the families of killed firefighters, police etc are NOT invited/allowed to attend. Show me specifically where it states that the names of the killed firefighters, police, etc will NOT be read, or honored.
How many times does it need to be said; September 11, 2001 is not and was not, about firefighters. It was an attack on everybody in this country, so drop the bullshit nonsense that it has to be about firefighters. 343 died doing their job but they were no more targeted than the other 2700 people who were killed.
@ Mike,
Show me an event on this scale and magnitude that DOESN'T include politicians.
Of course politicians will be there and of course some/all will use it to their advantage. THAT'S why they are politicians, To be 'outraged' that any politician would use such an event to enhance themselves is either naive or disingenuous.
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@ Mike,
Show me an event on this scale and magnitude that DOESN'T include politicians.
Of course politicians will be there and of course some/all will use it to their advantage. THAT'S why they are politicians, To be 'outraged' that any politician would use such an event to enhance themselves is either naive or disingenuous.
To add a bit as well, politicians (like it or not) are elected representatives of the people and as such represnt the people by their presence too. While most may capitalize on such presence, the fact they are there shouldn't get people all worked up either, because they do represent those who can't attend either.
Just like when the Packers went to meet the president at the White House, there were some elected officials as well. They had nothing to do with the team success and perhaps used their office for their own gain, but they did represent the people as well.
On 9/11 there were victims from across the country, on the planes, in the buildings, etc and there are many family and friends who won't be able to attend.
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Take a chill pill Jack, it's just a forum post. We can discuss and disagree about things, but I expect you to not throw out terms like cut the bullshit. I've always afforded you respect and I expect it back.
Read the blog posts out there Jack. You are a minority on this one. People recognize the sacrifices made by the rescuers involved in the 9/11 response and simply want to single out their actions and say thank you. People who lost loved ones feel very emotional about the 10th Anniversary not focusing more on the rescuers and have offered up their seats.
It's the politicians and opinions such as yours that continue to attempt to minimize the risks and long term health affects on the rescuers. Calling me naive or disingenuous is akin to me calling you out for being the same. Who's side are you on here Jack? Why so nasty?
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Mike,
Save one of those chill pills for yourself. How many responses of mine have you read? How often do I come across as warm and fuzzy? And suddenly you think I should be? The 'bullshit' comment was not directed at you but generally, at the OP and others who seem to think that everything has to be about firefighters.
Unless you used the word 'outraged' then clearly, I wasn't responding directly to YOU, e.g.To be 'outraged' that any politician would use such an event to enhance themselves is either naive or disingenuous. Really, it was a comment made in general to all those who immediately assume that every politician is 'out-to-get-them'. While I can understand that some people might read that as an attack on them, I wouldn't have put you in that category.
I do not let blogs or popular opinion guide me, I prefer to make up my own mind. If I'm in such a minority then why this discussion at all? Apparently there are others that think like I do (and they appear to be in charge of organizing the event.
Please, you're going to include my comments with those of politicians AND accuse me of minimizing risks to rescuers [it's the politicians and opinions such as yours that continue to attempt to minimize the risks and long term health affects on the rescuers]? Is it because I've expressed an opinion about the Zadroga Bill and you've decided I don't care about those risks. Too bad, because I never said that, I simply brought up some relevant facts that fly in the face of rampant emotionalism.
Please, show me facts that prove your statement, "...politicians attend in place of families from the 343 FDNY firefighters that lost their lives that day." So you too are saying that families of the killed 343 et. al. will NOT be allowed to attend? Sources please.
And now here you are, implying I'm against firefighters [Who's side are you on here Jack?], really? And nasty? I don't think so, but I guess, if I've disagreed with you on something you accept to be true (or factual) then I'm not really surprised that you would think I'm nasty. I'll withhold my own opinion as to how I perceived your attitude.
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Read the blog posts out there Jack. You are a minority on this one. People recognize the sacrifices made by the rescuers involved in the 9/11 response and simply want to single out their actions and say thank you. People who lost loved ones feel very emotional about the 10th Anniversary not focusing more on the rescuers and have offered up their seats
First and foremost Mike, the reason this is even being addressed in this thread is because I questioned the OP and JAck and I do share the same opinion for the most part here. So that said, it would appear I must be in the same said minority.
However, what this thread, the OP, those first couple comments and anyone who copies and reposts this on social media lacks is the hard facts. This whole thread and subsequent FB posting is all about knee-jerk, emotional responses without any regard for actual facts here.
I have been saying this for a while and yet seems there is complete disregard for the facts, yet sure plenty of regard for emotional opinion. The space by the WTC site is limited, the site is a huge construction site. If it really wasn't for history and knowing what happened, someone could easily mistake the area as just another construction project.
The fact remains the 10th anniversary is a bit more significant and more focus given. There is limited space for families and there will be increased security, so there just really isn't room for many responders. The notion that families of those who lost a FF or police officer won't attend is absurd and is a disgusting rumor at best. Same goes for those living family members who happen to be on the job, they will be there, the issue here is for the responders that worked at GZ.
There just isn't the room. In years past when people were able to have a ceremony in the "bathtub" of the WTC there was the space. Today that bathtub has a 25 to 30 story tall building going up along with tons of construction equipment, machinery, and so forth. It comes down to logistics and THAT is what these emotional response knee-jerk reactions don't account for.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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I agree with Jack and John. How many of you actually work for FDNY, DCFD, or ACFD? These are the three main departments that actually responded to the WTC and Pentagon. Let them handle this since it really doesn't affect most of you.
In DC, we also are not invited to the Pentagon for 9/11/11. That's fine. Guys from these departments showed up to do their jobs. They did the job and did it well not expecting some kind of honor or award. This isn't some holiday to worship firemen. The politicians can do whatever they want. I could care less about them. We will be here staffing our fire houses ready to respond again for whatever else happens in this city. I know FDNY and ACFD will be doing the same.
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Geez Jack, you sure love to argue like it's a life and death battle. Give me a break here buddy, I read the following online sources and others and they are 180 degrees from your viewpoint.
It's a given that politicians are going to this event. I fully understand that they love this type of public relations and it's a photo op. My thought here, based on New York residents suggestions, was to have politicians recognize this and do something to enable including everyone.
The key point here is that 2011 is the first year that the first responders have been officially advised that they are not invited to the event. That's a fact and I find to be both insensitive and as mentioned before, troubling.
Source 1: CBS New York:
NEW YORK (1010 WINS) – First responders will not be invited to this year’s 9/11 ceremony at Ground Zero. That’s the word from city officials who say there isn’t enough room for the tens of thousands of firefighters, police and other rescue workers.
According to a report by the Daily News, security issues and making sure that all of the victims’ families will be able to participate in the 10th anniversary of 9/11, contributed to first responders not being invited to the ceremony.
Phil, a construction worker at Ground Zero, says the city needs to figure out a way to have first responders at this anniversary.
“I think that they should be allowed to go because too many of their brothers and sisters lost their lives and they should be the first ones that are included,” he said. “They should make it happen. I’m sure there are going to be a lot of people here who shouldn’t be here.”
First responders will be given a separate ceremony at a later date.
Source 2:Hoax Slayer - Debunking email hoaxes and exposing Internet scams since 2003!
Protest Message - First Responders Not Invited to 9/11 Tenth Anniversary Ceremony
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/first-responders-not-invited.shtml
Brief Analysis
It is true that first responders have not been invited to the event. Various news articles about the issue report that first responders were not invited due to space constraints and that the memorial will focus on victims' families. New York authorities state that they are looking at other ways of recognizing and honouring first responders.
Outline
Protest message circulating via social media decries the fact that first responders to the 9/11 disaster have not been invited to the tenth anniversary 9/11 memorial ceremony.
Detailed Analysis
This protest message, which is currently circulating rapidly via Facebook and other social media sites, claims that first responders to the 9/11 attacks in New York have not been invited to the upcoming 9/11 tenth anniversary ceremony. According to the message, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has stated that there is no room at the event for first responders.
The claims in the message are true and have been confirmed by a number of credible news reports. An August 16 report published on UPI.com notes:
NEW YORK, Aug. 16 (UPI) -- First responders who rushed to the disaster scene on Sept. 11, 2001, are not invited to this year's memorial service at Ground Zero, New York officials confirm.
The service is scheduled for Sept. 11, 10 years after the terror attacks.
In a statement, a spokesman for New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Andrew Brent, said the memorial is for victims' families, CNN reported.
An August 17 Fox News report concurs, noting:
New York – They were the first ones on the scene when the World Trade Center towers fell on September 11, 2001, but ten years later, the first responders are being told that they will not be invited to take part in this year's tenth anniversary ceremony at Ground Zero.
The city announced earlier this week that due to security and space issues, there would be no room for the first responders.
The move has generated much controversy and has been viewed by many as disrespectful to those brave men and women who risked their lives and health to respond to the disaster. New York officials claim that the 10th Anniversary memorial ceremony will focus on the families of victims. New York Mayoral spokesman, Andrew Brent told UPI that "given the space constraints, we're working to find ways to recognize and honor first responders, and other groups, at different places and times."
Although official invitations were not usually sent to first responders in previous years, they were still free to attend memorial ceremonies if they wished and many have done so. However, 2011 is reportedly the first year in which first responders have been officially advised that they are not invited to the event.
Source 3: UPI First Responders Not Invited to Sept 11 Event
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/08/16/First-responders-not-invi...
First responder John Feal said the decision to exclude first responders shows Bloomberg "lives in his own world" CNN reported. Feal is the founder of an advocacy group for police officers, firefighters, civilian volunteers and others who worked at Ground Zero.
"The best of the best that this country offered 10 years ago are being neglected and denied their rightful place," Feal said.
CNN said in addition to victims' families, several politicians -- including two presidents -- are expected to attend. The report said Bloomberg's office would not provide specifics on the ceremony arrangements, but noted first responders had not been invited to the preceding nine memorial services.
"Nonsense," said first responder Morris Faitelewicz, vice president of the Auxiliary Police Supervisors Benevolent Association. Faitelewicz said formal invitations were usually not sent in the past, but first responders have been able to attend all of the previous ceremonies by showing up.
He said specifically not allowing them to attend this year is especially galling, CNN reported.
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/08/16/First-responders-not-invi...
My perception is based on what I read from nationally recognized news sources verses your opinion Jack. This is the first year that firefighters were told not to show up. That's the point here Jack.
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Don't disagree with anything you said, and realize that I am sitting on the left coast, with only a computer to figure out why politicians would make the call to specifically call out firefighters not to attend. I know folks can always show up, no question there. But officially, it seems appropriate to have some of the rescuers families that were lost represented as well as police, EMS and others to symbolically acknowledge their lost loved ones sacrifices. That's it.
I can't believe that I am even trying to argue with Jack, which is pretty much an impossible task for me. It's like arguing or trying to argue with my middle daughter. She, like Jack is quicker witted, better read and smarter than I am, so I'm going into this already losing.
I guess I am the minority here and can accept that I suppose. But when FDNY firefighters feel the same way... Am I really that off base here? I provided a couple of references above that backs up what I have said and explains why I am questioning NY cities actions.
I have a tendency to try to come up with a mutually acceptable solution when problems arise. This is a black and white thing where someone drew a line in the sand, and I think the way NY city politicians went about organizing the 10th anniversary event left a lot to be desired as far as fairness.
And yes, I still feel that firefighters are special. Even you Jack, you are special too.
CBz
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Mike,
Where are the sources that say that families and friends of firefighters killed on 9/11 are NOT invited?
As I pointed out in my first response (to the OP but apparently you have his proxy), where is the source that says that the families of the 343 firefighters who died on 9/11 CAN NOT ATTEND. Don't give me articles with the vague '9/11 responder', I want sources that specifically says that those families and friends CAN NOT ATTEND.
I'm going to dismiss your pissy attitude as one who's had a bad day. Hope it gets better for you.
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