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Apparatus Highway Spotting - Do we create the hazard(s)?
- When spotting apparatus, what rules do you follow as far as placement of your apparatus for highway responses?
- What hazards do you see in the photograph above and how could you resolve any identified safety issues?
Note: What you don't see on the left side of the engine is a vehicle over the side...
TCSS,
CBz
"Not all training occurs on the fireground. Concepts, practices and procedures can be learned using internet based training programs that contain graphics and text, designed to work together in concert to motivate, prepare and enable the learner to apply the information while at the station or off duty at home. This type of training can be very effective for in-station mini-training topics for your crew. While the answer(s) are more than obvious, the point is to have your crew openly discuss what they would do differently to provide both crew and scene safety. When you respond to the next incident on the highway, everyone on board your engine will have a different sense of awareness. Why? Because you talked about it..."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bill Anderson on
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We are a rural department and deal with highway patrol. They are usually doing their thing and trying to get the scene cleared. Usually only one trooper unless it's a serious injury or fatal. If SO shows up it's usualy just to rubberneck and socialize. That leave s us to try to slow the idiots down. We had one trooper get mad and shut down the interstate completely after some fool nearly hit him and our chief. If our captain responds it takes only one idiot before he orders the road shut down. Troopers have no problem with it since it's safer for them to do their job.
We had to shut down the interstate awhile back to land a helicopter. I was on the second engine blocking and had to go to the scene with rehab supplies. in the time it took me to walk to the scene and go back to the engine they were 3 and 4 wide behind it on a 2 lane highway. Everyone is in a hurry now days.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Klaene on
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I'll take a different perspective on this. The picture tells us something of interest. The tractor trailer is doing 1 of 2 things. A. changing to the high speed lane. B moving over "a little" straddling 2 lanes. If it is A he is doing it WAY too late. If B he is still way too late but even then he is still placing the crew at risk if they exit and placing anyone approaching from behind at risk if they are passing or already in the high speed lane. While he is doing this he is blocking all visibility of the fire apparatus from traffic coming up in the high speed lane. This is an extremely dangerous situation in my opinion. you have 3 options. 1. pull out and get away from the scene (in other words: are you needed there) 2. get off the shoulder an into the grass 3. block the 1st lane by parking at an angle.
If all the crew will be operating out of the vehicle consider parking FACING traffic (headlights at a slight angle) as you likely have better warning lights that way especially in the fog. This last suggestion may be very difficult if not impossible. We use it here on 2 lanes road so I have not tried in on high speed 4 lane highways. As an alternate turn on backup lights ( I have a manual switch for ours) or rear scene hose bed lights. White (especially spot beams) lights are better in the fog than red and amber.
The main point here is generally our rear warning is not as good as our front which in my opinion is the wrong way to go. This is especially true on older units or "homemade" lighting packages. But I still think NFPA has put to much emphasis on chevrons and not enough on rear lighting. (for instance , why are arrow sticks not required?)
I do strongly suggest LED rear lights they are significantly better in the fog.
We use MUTCD as a guide for highway warning devices and parking
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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(for instance , why are arrow sticks not required?)
Exceptional point Mark... Rear directional arrow lighting is standard equipment on all of my departments emergency vehicles. Sometimes though, and this has been a hot topic at times, using NO lighting is a good option just like saying no to driving Code 3. It's not always necessary.
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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I love these lights Mike!
I think any member who thinks the big red (insert any other colour!) truck and a few flashing lights is enough, is very naive.
There's 100's of examples of apparatus being struck at scenes- the more visible we make it, with well researched and tested colours and light configurations (as oppossed to we've always had this colour), the better off we'll be....
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Permalink Reply by Marc Hansen on
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When closing a road we use 2 vehicles the first is the initial blocker with cones out 250 to 300 feet into oncoming traffic before the blocker. First cone now starts in the middle of the shoulder, go a few feet then place a cone in the right side of the lane to be closed, next cones are staggered to close the lane off prior to traffic getting to the blocker. Then cone up to the incident. If you dont place cones every so many feet between the blocker and incident someone will pull into the closed lane after the blocker. If working near a bend in the road the blocker should be positioned prior to the bend to give as much warning as possible. Someone should be at the blocker with a radio to contact command in the event that someone enters the closed lane so everyone has some type of warning. Dont forget that there are real compentent idiots operating some vehicles on the roadway and not everyone is going to guess the correct way to act. Look at an interstate construction zone, they normally start with right lane closed 1 mile ahead,then go something along the lines of right lane closed: 1/2 mile ahead, 1500 ft ahead, 1000 ft ahead. Watch the point where the barrels start to close the road and there will always be 5 or 6 cars who are completly surprised that the right lane is closed.
We had to start the cone in the shoulder due to one lady believing that since we had the right lane closed and the cones angling for traffic to go to the left, that her correct course of action was to proceed down the shoulder. She was even more upset when I threw my helmet at her car to get her attention and couldnt believe I would be mad at her!
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Fire / EMS Apparatus On Scene Spotting: This graphic can be used by your department for training and SOG's and does a good job graphically explaining one of the more important firefighter safety issues we face daily. I think the graphic is clean, to the point and accurately portrays motor vehicle accident scenes and apparatus spotting.
Does anyone find any problems with either the terminology or placement of vehicles and warning components? I welcome any input to recreate a new graphic that represents something we can all use. I can't imagine a MVA being any different in Australia as it is in Santa Barbara or Hilton Head Island... Why reinvent the "wheel"?
CBz
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Permalink Reply by ashfire on
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Did anyone miss Grand Rapids FD idea. They got a used dump truck from the water dept, painted it to match their apparatus put emergency vehicle lights and siren on it along with a direction message board on the back of it and add a crash barrier trailer device and call it Utility Two.
They got tried of having to repair a ladder tower they used has a barrier vehicle at highway accidents so they took this old dump truck and made use of it.
Maybe more fire depts should look into something like this.
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I like the idea. the absorption barrier is great also. I currently don't have that option (but always thought a dump truck could be useful for the department so maybe this is my chance o justify it .
We do have a couple of utility vehicles, basically used pickups one of which carries a snow plow , that we have been used to help with traffic control. They are not big nor heavy but they are certainly more disposable and carry lots of cones and signs,
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I would check for government auctions or sales to find at least a good used dump truck or even a big flatbed truck. Our county had two used public works dump trucks that the fire service used to carry collapse materials in the bed if we had a ditch or building collapse. They got around to later putting a snow plow on both of them. It was funny the trucks were medium blue, had red lights and lettered Cave In Unit before they were repainted White with a red strip. They replaced both trucks with a pod unit truck.
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One thing about this setup is that our county has told their crews to put the ambulance on the otherside of the crash as a safety factor. Use the crash also as a safety barrier for the crew.
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