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Permalink Reply by Tony P on October 2, 2008 at 9:52pm

That can certainly work. But I'm not keen on it for the simple reason that unless he fitted a gated Y somewhere then he's hogged the water supply. A water supply that could keep a number of lines going.
Getting a line or two working from the pumper and it's own water, while runnng a feed in from the hydrant.

But then, our operating methods are very different from those in North America.

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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on October 3, 2008 at 10:12am

Wet barrel hydrants. Almost all of the hydrants around here have a 4" and 2-2.5" port. Residential 1-2.5"with the 4". Each with their own valve.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on October 3, 2008 at 10:57pm

Brad,

OK, exactly how do we do that?
That's a nice, generic strategy statement, but it doens't tell the Lieutenant on the 1st-due engine exactly what to do and where in the scenario we're discussing.

While we're at it, is there a situation where Environmental Conservation trumps Property Conservation?
How about a situation where firefighter life safety is in direct conflict with civilian life safety?

I'd be very interested in hearing your responses.

Thanks,
Ben

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Permalink Reply by Becki Turner on October 4, 2008 at 12:37am

Our chief's wife meets us there sometimes, or if she can't get to the station, she will come to the scene and keep the kids off scene and busy somewhere for us. She's a great gal, and so very helpful. When all else fails, I let someone else drive the truck, (if there's anyone else available) and I go in my POV. The kids are great about sitting in my truck, or on the footboard of the fire truck by the pump panel and watching the activities. I run the pumper usually, and most of the time, it's the back-up pumper transferring water from the tankers to the primary pumper, so they are far enough away from the scene to be out of the way and out of harm's way as well. During the day when there are so few of us available, we sometimes have no choice. Sometimes, during the wee hours of the night, if we have a fire, one of our other fire fighter's girlfriend will come to the house when he leaves for the fire. It usually works out one way or another! I've included a pic of her doing what she loves best. Also, she's with my husband and son in front of our brush truck--converted from an old GI truck!

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Permalink Reply by Becki Turner on October 4, 2008 at 12:54am

OK, I am still learning, so I have some questions. A lot are talking about making entry. If we open up either end of the house to enter it, (the house end or the garage end) won't that ventilate and draw the fire into areas of the home that it hasn't yet breached? I see the smoke coming from the eaves and attic, but that doesn't mean that the attic is all aflame yet, but does leave the option for flashover in the attic, right? Some have mentioned ventilating the roof, and with my limited experience, I would think that would have to be done, before opening any other part of the house, but like I said, my experience is limited, so that's why I'm here-to learn a little. Any help/comments/answers? I love the fire service, but I am very young in it, and I KNOW I have a lot to learn...(which may be the smartest thing I've ever said!)

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Permalink Reply by Tony P on October 4, 2008 at 3:26am

Thanks Jay. Your answer, of course, sent me searching for 'wet hydrant'. I love learning! Here we only have wet hydrants, however the outlets are all the same size and multiple outlets do not have individual valves. Hence my talking about a gated 'Y'. Commercial and industrial sites usually have a different style to the normal street hydrants, and these have individually valved outlets.

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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on October 4, 2008 at 3:33pm

Wet barrel hydrants have water charged at full pressure in the hydrant barrel at all times. Each outlet has it's own valve, and all of what you see here is above ground. Originally developed in California, wet barrel hydrants are found in warm climates throughout the world.

Dang you backwards aussie you. I hope you see the huge sarcasm here.
The majority of hydrants here, I'm not going to speak of other depts., have a 4" and 2.5" hookup. This used to be only in commercial areas with residential having 2-2.5' hookups. Commercial areas now will have a 4" and 2-2.5".

Attachments:

• wet barrel.jpg, 8 KB

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Permalink Reply by Travis Skinner on August 1, 2011 at 11:10am

with my dept we would have a stationary crew out front attacking the fire from outside then id send a crew into the front door with a hoseline and attack the fire from inside also and once the intitial flame is out go on with the job

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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on August 3, 2011 at 10:22am

DAVE, is absolutely correct. We would do the same here. Except for one thing, we'd
have the fire out 2minutes faster than BFD. lol.

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Permalink Reply by Aric Stewart on August 30, 2013 at 12:55am

If you look at the Photos the fire is in the attic space look at the smoke coming out of the front peak vent.  If you set up a PPV fan you will burn that house down.  

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Permalink Reply by captnjak on August 30, 2013 at 2:44pm

This appears to be a fire that started outside by the entry area. The involvement of the decking down low is not typical. The fire may have been started by a flammable liquid spill (accidental or intentional) or possibly a barbecue mishap (tipped over by child, wind,etc). It's also possible there was an electrical short underneath decking which started this fire, but that would take longer to develope and more likely be noticed at this time of day. Can't really tell if area behind the front wall is involved yet. This area does not appear to be an interior part of structure (we would call it a breezeway in these parts). The interior of garage and house don't appear to have much involvement yet but it's getting close. Attic definitely has smoke but fire may just be starting up there.

I believe a quick attack from exterior would knock down the majority of fire. Roofing material and the gable wall end would also have to be hit quickly. 

A line would be needed inside in case of extension to house or attic area.

Searches need to be quickly completed (but not at expense of handline positioning).

Thermal Imaging Camera would be a great tool to have in checking for extension.

Report would be needed from rear although I don't believe fire is blowing out the windows there (as was previously mentioned as a possibility).

I would want someone on roof to check for hot spots indicating presence and/or location of attic involvement and to perform available attic ventilation. But I would not want roof cut immediately. Wait for report from interior.

Interior team should use camera and pull some ceiling openings to check attic conditions. The same relatively small openings could be used to apply water for any light extension.

I see no need for defensive operation for this fire. Even for a smaller department. But don't try to do the impossible; safety is still a consideration.

To the one young brother who wanted to stop and write down his objectives and list his tasks. This is just not an option. While you're writing you are losing this house. This is why Incident Commanders regardless of rank or department need to have some seasoning in the field. Training and certifications are fine but they don't make for a fire chief. A "fire chief" sizes this fire up in about 10 seconds and then changes his original opinion upon good reports from (hopefully also seasoned) officers and firefighters.

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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Pickett on September 5, 2013 at 6:10pm

I think the fire attack for me would be pretty simple. Firstly, we need to make sure everyone is out of the house. Secondly, we should move the vehicle that we see and check to see if there are vehicles in the garage. Meanwhile, one team would be putting water on the fire via exterior attack. I would then send a team in to push the fire away from the main part of the house. I would believe it is more important to save the house than the garage. Protect the main part of the house and exposures. Shouldn't take long to knock it out.

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