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Aircraft flying into a high rise building? Really?
Ok... so maybe this is just one of those things that really doesn't have a chance of actually happening? I'm sure no one else out there has high rise buildings in and around aircraft landing and take off corridors, right?
Is there anything different about how you would handle the above example compared to what we would consider a standard high rise fire, e.g. no plane involved... or better yet, have you actually had to deal with this type of scenario?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Is there anything different about how you would handle the above example compared to what we would consider a standard high rise fire, e.g. no plane involved
Nope, treat it as a high rise operation.
have you actually had to deal with this type of scenario?
Nope, but several years ago there was a plane that crashed into a warehouse in the neighboring city's industrial park.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Not counting the intentional crashes associated with the 9/11 attacks, there have been two documented cases of aircraft crashing into high-rise building of which I'm aware. Both have occurred on Manhattan Island.
That doesn't mean that it can't happen elsewhere, but clearly there aren't that many places where high rises and short-final flight paths are near each other.
As John Crabbe said, we'd just handle it as a high-rise op. We already use Class A foam routinely on structure fires and it has pretty good knockdown power on Class B fires. If the Class A wasn't making quick headway, we'd switch to Class B.
We work mid-rise and occasional high-rise incidents, but not aircraft related.
We've had plane crashes, but the two closest to a high rise hit a golf course and a beach.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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Wasnt one of those in the Empire State Building back in like the 40's? I remember talking to a retired FDNY firefighter at my Great-Grandmothers Bday party once, he saw my pager and talked to me for the next 3 hours and I was absolutely entranced. He told me about being second due to the crash involving an army plane or something that crashed into the upper levels of the empire state, and the engine fell through the elevator shaft a number of floors starting fire on the way down. He kept making reference to only wearing "rubbers" at the time and it finaly dawned on me he was referring to the rubber coat and boots!
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Permalink Reply by Pararescue on
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It was a B-25 bomber that hit the Empire State building. Ever since NYC is a "No fly zone".
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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The picture in this thread if my memory serves me correctly (and not spending anytime researching the news clip) was from a small GA aircraft in NYC; Cirrus SR-22 which actually had a ballistic recovery (parachute) system onboard. They are touted as a last resort recovery device that will lower an aircraft down in a highly survivable impact. I believe this was the EX-NY Yankees pitcher who was just traded that died in this unfortunate incident. It was post 9-11 and the device was never deployed, pilot control and wind had factors in the accident.
As far as responding to this or any incident, you have to know your response district, understand the design of said buildings and what the engineer's have considered for impact protection. Like the Empire State Building for example it was designed for an impact of (at the time) about the largest most common aircraft in that era. I believe the WTC was designed for aircraft impact of today, what may have not been considered by designers is a fully loaded jet (maximum jet fuel capacity) and flying them into the structure at extrememly high speeds verse the average landing speed of 100-200 dependant upon the size of A/C and loads. Those two factors have an immense amount of impact (+) or (-) on the built in protection systems designed into any structure. Hindsight is 20/20 and we all know what happened that day. (Godspeed 343) Responders will never have the luxry of knowing the exact type/size/fuel loads/impact speed, etc. so firefighters will have to make on scene decisions based on information available to them at the time of the incident. Those 343 brothers and many others from the FDNY saved THOUSANDS that morning.
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Permalink Reply by joemac on
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Well, we all now know that anytime a plane flies into a high rise, the building will subsequently collapse into its own footprint.
Plan accordingly.
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Joe Mac - thats simply not true. In the picture above that building did not fall down. There are many factors that need to be considered.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Presumably only if the building has been wired with explosives and detonated in conjunction with the impact.
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Permalink Reply by Gary Gowland on
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry8rBKp9cfQ Never happen, wanna bet? Happened 30 miles from where I live. Stay safe
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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I think the WTC was designed to withstand the impact of a 707, which is much smaller than the planes that hit it.
There are quite a few small plane vs. building accidents, but most of them (like the one pictured above) are not really national news. Knowing that you are going to a flammable liquids fire, and that several floors may have ignighted simultaniously would keep this sort of thing very exciting! Hopfully the OIC would see this was not a regular apartment fire on size up.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Through your words, We Shall Never Forget! Thank you so much for not only adding on to the discussion very specific details that all company officers should be cognizant of coupled with tying in lessons learned from the WTC. Nice one FETC.
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AEs that the plane was not visible but the leaking aviation fuel upcoming out of the gaping hole showing firefighters checking out the damage. Amazing there was not a fire. Nice response and amazing video!
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