Need your opinions...

After a recent training evolution where we were activating the RIT team to rescue a fallen firefighter, we discussed the difficulties the teams were having with communication once they had located the fallen firefighter. One of the issues was the fallen firefighter's PASS alarm. I suggested that once the fallen firefighter is found, that the PASS alarm could be turned off in order to improve the communication flow during the rescue of the firefighter. There were mixed opinions on doing this. I searched the forums and wasn't able to find this subject. I also checked training documentation and the only thing I could find was the importance of activating the PASS when problems are encountered, but nothing on when to de-activate it.

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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on April 12, 2011 at 7:42pm
...especially in the dead of night!
Permalink Reply by James Burton (Jamie) on April 12, 2011 at 7:52pm
when my Department trains on Rit/Mayday type scenarios, we always tell the Team to turn the PASS off.
Permalink Reply by masonfire30 on April 12, 2011 at 8:41pm
turn the pass alarm off hook a strobe or light stick to them and a search rope
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on April 12, 2011 at 9:17pm
It's a no-brainer. The PASS is specifically intended to help you locate the firefighter who needs help. Once you locate that firefighter, there is ZERO need to continue locating him/her - the firefighter has already been found.

So - turn off the PASS so you can communicate and if necessary, have additiona RIT enter to bring you more equipment and manpower as needed.
Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on April 12, 2011 at 9:33pm
From a Mayday/RIT point of view, there are 2 times to silence a PASS device. 1. Whenever the member needs to transmit or receive info via his/her radio and 2. Once the RIT team has located the downed member they ar to silence his PASS.

Also, the member transmitting the Mayday should not activate his/her PASS until after he/she has transmitted the Mayday.
Permalink Reply by Pararescue on April 13, 2011 at 12:12pm
Ralph thats not ignorance.... your using that thing called common sense again, damn you! lol Why hear what your partner is saying, the down ff, or command.
Permalink Reply by Pararescue on April 13, 2011 at 12:15pm
In all the training I've done this has never been addressed. It will be at training now though. Who says you cant learn things from a "social network"?
Permalink Reply by jboud on April 13, 2011 at 1:24pm
You seem to have this down path. Are your comments based on written documentation if so, can you provide a reference?
Permalink Reply by Wade Seely on April 13, 2011 at 1:51pm
Shareef

Good points I was reading through the posts looking to see if anyone had mentioned having the pass off when transmitting a mayday and LUNAR report, which is just as imnportant has turning it off when the rit team locates the downed ff.

TCSS
Permalink Reply by FETC on April 13, 2011 at 2:31pm
You guys are reading into this too much.

Activating a PASS is a last resort. If the downed firefighter has a radio use it! If he or she can tell command and the RIT team excatly where he or she is, then tell them over the radio. The PASS device is for a firefighter who has stopped moving, trapped, pinned or unconscious. If not, then call the mayday, give your LUNAR, conserve your air and wait for help if that is what you are going to do. Now if you don't have a radio then you must activate your PASS to let others know you are in trouble. The PASS policy is from the old days when many firefighters or fire officers inside the building didn't have a personal radio!

Now as far as your drill last night. The first thing that occurs when the RIT team locates the downed firefighter is they MUST secure the downed firefighters PASS device that is in full alarm. The arguement is that you can't call command and communicate over the RIT Officers radio. The second is that the members of the RIT can't assess if the firefighter is breathing if they can't hear his respirations through his or her regulator. Third is nobody can communicate to each other face to face with a screaming PASS going off. Fourth is why would you want it left on? He is now not down and unaccounted for, the RIT team has secured the firefighter, and they are in control of him. Fifth is while extricating him, you need to communicate the "Ready/Go" model of push and pull techniques. Try that with a pass device screaming.

The commercially sold RIT packs do not come with a PASS device on them so the RIT team doesn't have to deal with a PASS constantly going off.

I disagree with Shareef's point of view, from past experience. IF the downed firefighter has a radio and can communicate directly then the PASS is only going to excite the downed firefighter and expedite air useage. Our RIT will ask the downed firefighter for a 30 second activation and then shut if off when they arrive and start the search on the reported mayday division. It can be repeated if needed for direction but not left on, the mayday firefighter can not hear his radio if called for additional information or to just give or get a situational report on conditional changes (+) or (-). Plus if he hears the RIT nearby he can report via radio, I can hear them, etc. Screaming pass devices eliminate all of that.

Most fire department's have focused on basic RIT training with FF moves, drags and carries (all techniques) for specific past LODD's. Which is great for being prepared as the "stand by" team member. But many have not done advanced RIT with focus on team approach concept with individual member roles, responsibilities and expectations once you find and attempt to retrieve a brother. This makes for a more productive team and not stumbling over eachother in the zero visibility or who is taking what tool. Futhermore, the officers need to step up for training with mayday management, rapidly expanding the ICS, and communication modeling. Which we provide alot of training with our Mayday Management for Incident Commanders. What the brothers are doing on the inside directly effect the poor guy out in the street that is trying to manage chaos.

Bill
www.fetcservices.com
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on April 13, 2011 at 9:19pm
Not all PASS activations are done manually. If the firefighter is motionless due to injury, entanglement, unconsciousness, etc. then the PASS will self-activate - the original reason the PASS was invented.

In that case, it's up to RIT to deactivate the PASS when they reach the downed firefighter - if it is physically possible to do so. It's possible that you may not be able to reach the PASS to deactivate it. The 9/11 WTC collapse and the multiple PASS activations that didn't stop until their batteries ran out is an extreme example of this, but it makes the point.
Permalink Reply by John S-B on April 13, 2011 at 9:43pm
If you are a fire dept., you need to be trained in RIT, period. It should be as important if not more than any task in firefighting.

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