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Why the disrespect of the youger guys?
I have been noticing latley in my FD and other forums in the world of firefighting that alot of people dislike young succesful guys.
For example a recently promoted Lt. told me that he wanted to get promoted so he wouldn' have to work for a young punk with a college degree. WOW I thought I think that was directed @ me.
Now I respect the elder generation fo the fire service my dad is that genertation 30 years in various dept. (industrial, structural, career, and vollie). I realize that the elder generation is what made it possible for me to do this job that I love.
But I don't think the elder generation realizes that:
1. The fires they fought are not the fires we fight today, they need to evolve.
2. They built the FD but we are the future and if they don't help us along in our infancy then what they built will surely fall.
I am a young gung ho guy who trains all the time (just ask my wife) and the older guys seem to resent me for it. When I put in for leave they give me crap about taking another class. Thankfully not all of them in the dept. are like this. Some really reached out to me and we have taught each other alot.
So I just wanna know what you guys think. Do you have this problem? or Are you this problem?
For example a recently promoted Lt. told me that he wanted to get promoted so he wouldn' have to work for a young punk with a college degree. WOW I thought I think that was directed @ me.
Now I respect the elder generation fo the fire service my dad is that genertation 30 years in various dept. (industrial, structural, career, and vollie). I realize that the elder generation is what made it possible for me to do this job that I love.
But I don't think the elder generation realizes that:
1. The fires they fought are not the fires we fight today, they need to evolve.
2. They built the FD but we are the future and if they don't help us along in our infancy then what they built will surely fall.
I am a young gung ho guy who trains all the time (just ask my wife) and the older guys seem to resent me for it. When I put in for leave they give me crap about taking another class. Thankfully not all of them in the dept. are like this. Some really reached out to me and we have taught each other alot.
So I just wanna know what you guys think. Do you have this problem? or Are you this problem?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by LadyChaplain on
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Just from what I've seen, not just in my company, but in others is the following....
On one hand we have the guys who are in it for the glory. Everybody knows the guys that think that they know it all after their Firefighter 1, yet never make it to drill to reinforce their skills. They become lax and are just in it for the social scene. They get a lot of crap from the older guys because on scene, they are the first to pipe up and voice their opinion, when they are the ones that haven't done it since FF1.
Then we have the guys that take their Firefighter 1, come to a ton of drills, take classes and eventually gain leadership positions. But, these guys aren't effective as leaders. Sure they may know their way around, but when it comes to conveying information or maintaining command on a scene, you may as well have a chimp running the show.
And then again, we have the younger people who take their firefighter1, continue their firematic and ems education and have the potential to become good leaders - these are the kids that aren't given crap. These are the kids that aren't likely to gain leadership positions because their peers equate knowledge with being loud and outgoing - and often times, these are the most mild mannered people in the group.
I find myself in the third group. I have taken my firefighter 1, my first responder, my radio class and just finished my first elective (accident victim extrication). I try to make as many drills as I can (I work 2 jobs, teach sunday school, go to school full time and i am on a dance team), or during the months where I can only make one drill, i try to maximize it to learn as much as possible. I really would like to seek out a leadership position in the future, but know that in the election based system I will never get the votes needed because not only am I a female, I'm a quiet female. I speak when needed and will voice my opinion, but I am far quieter than the good ol' boys in the company.
Knowledge is power, and I applaud any young firefighter who goes after specialized training. But I believe that the only way to maintain respect with the elders is to maintain the right attitude. I know that when I was drifting in the direction of one of the other two groups, I found myself not in the best graces with the elders. That doesn't mean sell yourself out, but make sure that your attitude is right. If you do that and they still disrespect you, then there's some underlying issue.
Just go for it. Stay strong and don't give up.
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Permalink Reply by Matthew on
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"These are the kids that aren't likely to gain leadership positions because their peers equate knowledge with being loud and outgoing - and often times, these are the most mild mannered people in the group"
Sorry to dissapoint but a key part to being an officer is to be able to be loud and outgoing when it matters. Officers have to lead and can only lead by example so much, a good officer needs to efficiently and effectively articulate orders so they may be able to propely instruct and direct his men (and women). I beat out my opponet for Lieutenat 5 years ago cause I was louder and more outgoing. It is not that a mild mannered person cannot advance, but if they are not assertive and demonstrate what they know, who will see what they are capable of. Mind you, you can be a mild mannered officer...it's most definitely not about being the center of attention.. I personally believe it's the firefighters who can speak up when the time is right and it is needed, but can maintain being mild mannered the rest of the time, that make the best officers..just my personal opinion. Knlowledge is most definitely power, and power is victory
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Permalink Reply by Dan Hoey on
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Well Mike then I feel sorry for your department and the people you serve. After 20 yrs I still do any training I am able to do and read what I can read and work very hard at being my best all the time.
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Wow I didnt know being part of a fire fighting team was such competition. I always thought those who rise to leadership are those who work hard and do a great job and prove themselves as a leader? I didnt know we are looking for victory?? I didnt know being in this job was a competition I thought it was to serve and do something we enjoyed. If your goal is to be the number one guy on the scene then I guess being a team doesnt mean much.
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WE are always looking for victory over the beast, and if you aren't I don't know what you are fighting for. For the record I spelt knowledge wrong...looks kinda silly in that statement. The point I was making with beating out the other for Lieutenant was we were both just as qualified for the position, We had performed equally as well and been on the department from about the same time (within a month of each other). I was chosen for the officer postion because throughout my career I had been more outgoing and took charge when the need arose. Whereas my co-worker and brother had been less assertive and not nearly as confident. He is a GREAT firefighter, and would have made a good officer. The bottom line is when it came down to it they chose loud and more outgoing as desireable traits of an officer.
" always thought those who rise to leadership are those who work hard and do a great job and prove themselves as a leader?" That was exactly my point, but if you are too mild mannered and never take the lead, you never demonstrate leadership.
For the record I think you mistook what I meant about victory...
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Ok I guess I did it just seems not just from you but in the history of this post and others I see more and more I's from people I did this I do that or I wouldnt let them do this. I don't understand all the BS I read in here at times like lets see whos hose is longer Sorry ladies dont take that as me being a sexist as well. I don't understand the who better the young guy or old the women or the man. I been the young guy I am the old guy Sorry never been a women I been paid I been a volunteer I been a fire fighter I been a medic..See I did all the I's now too and I just think we all should be giving advice help encouragement and not arguing over if I am too old to train or to young to learn or I have the wrong sex organ.
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I can only speak for what I have done. I think we all share our experiences here for people to judge and figure out what may work best for them to solve a situation or to shed light on a different point of view. Maybe it is wanting to convey our beliefs as well. I try to be as objective and candid as I can with my responses. if nothing else this network is a tool for all of US to learn from. Yet another training tool to bounce ideas and find solutions to problems we never imagined or dealt with. I believe the greatest part of this site is the things we can learn from each other...and maybe if we can get some people who are here with narrow views of the firefighting world to open their eyes to some of the changes going on all around us....
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Good luck with that part, some people can't open there eye on both ends. Sadly your dealing with people and they are never perfect and some are always wrong
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Permalink Reply by Robert Rider on
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You are new.They aren't. They will not show you respect if you wnat it. In there eyes they feel that you are trying to push them aside. They want to be respected as much as you do. I know several guys that for some reason think the fire service began the day they walked in the door. These older guys have seen bigger and better fires than we will ever see. There will always be anamosity between the Piss pots and the old fucks. There is alot to be learned from the older generation. And you will be able to twist their experience and use it for your own well being. When you stop waiting for their approval is when they will give it to you. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, but you can impress them with improved ones.
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Permalink Reply by Donnie Bathje on
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Never do just enough. Stay one step ahead. When they think an Associates will do, get a Bachleors. They can take your home, car and credit. But they can never take away your knowledge. Remember, it is only knowledge if you share it. It sounds like you do.
Change in the fire service is very hard to deal with. Don't worry what the next guy thinks, take care of number one. If they don't get the education, they get left behind. I was up for promotion this past November, another guy got the job, he deserved it. But you ought to have seen the rush to get educated when others weren't eligible. Let see what happens this time around.
Kepp up the good work, you are going down the right path buddy. Remember your last day on the department should be spent at training.
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I beg to differ with the loud and outgoing part. My 2nd assistant chief is far from loud and outgoing, but when it comes to a situation, he can run command without screaming his head off.
I tested this theory in my class the other day for an extrication scenario. We had four "chiefs" of equal rank. Two assigned to one car, two assigned to the other. Communication was built into this exercise. The instructor gave the four "chiefs" a general scenario and briefly stated what he wanted done to the vehicles. It was upto us to decide amongst ourselves how to run our squads. Never once did I raise my voice, yell, or do anything that one might consider outgoing, and my squad still got the job done. I was even complimented by members of my squad for my leadership abilities and how the situation was handled.
It can be done.
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