Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on February 3, 2011 at 11:37pm

Actually, do you realise how EASY it is to fly into restricted airspace? Pre 9 11, the Pentagon did not maintain any sort of air defence. It sits (essentially) at the end of the runway for National airport, planes need to thread the needle between the Pentagon, White house/national mall, CIA and a few other restricted sites when they take off to the north west. One of the surprising things to come out was that the US no longer keeps a bunch of fighters in the air, or on "ready 10." Andrews Air Force base is very nearby, as is Quatico, the Marine Barracks at 8th & I, Bolling AFB, Fort Meade, and about a dozen other military installations. Since the end of the cold war, we stood down a lot of our capabilities to save a lot of money.

In fact, if you watch the news in DC, especially pre 9-11, private planes violated restricted airspace all the time. When I was younger, some bozo crashed a Cessna into the Whitehouse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Eugene_Corder

by means of shrewd lies, repeated ad nauseum, accompanied by a total unwillingness to see any contradictory evidence, you are being lied to and sent down a false path, which distracts and discredits your core principal that America has been changed for the worse by the events of 9-11, most of which is through no one's fault but our own.

Permalink Reply by 32ninbk9msq9k on February 4, 2011 at 12:20am

My main issue with 9/11 is that I feel that it is the pivotal event upon which our continued wars in the middle east are based. Without this excuse, we would really be hard pressed to justify our actions over there.
Tell me this: What are we doing in the middle east? Do you really think we are going to kill all of the Muslims in the world? Or maybe just all of the 'terrorists'?.. right down to the last 19 hiding somewhere? Where does this stop?

By some accounts, up to a million civilians have been killed in these wars. Even if we agree to a much smaller number... say, 50,000 uninvolved bystanders being killed in our attempt at whatever it is we are trying to do.... How does that make the world a better place? I don't get it.

Can someone explain how this is supposed to work itself out?

In a very real sense, those 19 terrorists have won. The America that was is no more. We no longer have near as many of the freedoms that we used to have. Instead of making our country great and investing in ourselves, we were diverted into a ridiculous war that has cost us SO MUCH MORE than people realize.

Permalink Reply by 32ninbk9msq9k on February 4, 2011 at 12:36am

In 1975 the north tower caught fire and burned on the 11th floor.... "like a torch" for hours. One hundred thirty-two firefighters fought the fire. It had the weight of 100 floors above the fire. Not a single structural beam had to be replaced.
Sprinklers were not installed at the time.
There was no fireproofing.

Permalink Reply by 32ninbk9msq9k on February 4, 2011 at 12:45am

Let me guess. 9/11 conspiracy theorist?

Even the U.S. Government's explanation is that 19 people conspired in a cave to pull this off.

We all pretty much agree that it's a conspiracy... the disagreement is about who exactly conspired.

I bet you know where you were on 9/11 when the first plane hit? I know this... you weren't watching it on the T.V. How do I know that? Well, because there weren't any live T.V cameras pointing at the twin towers... because nothing had happened yet... they were just sitting there... like always.

Why would George Bush lie when he was asked about it? Why not just tell the truth?
Explain this to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xgk6bE58DQ

Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on February 4, 2011 at 12:51am

Hey conspiracy theorist without a sense of actual on the job experience, try and think about the difference in circumstances. Number one the building was type 1 construction from the start, meaning the steel is fireproofed...got proof on the no fireproofing in 75?

Like a torch? Ok sure, anyone can make a statement like that, so what?

Fact remains that there were crews there to fight the fire and to get water on the fire, thus mitigating the fire and keeping the fire in check. Fact also remains said fire occurred at night when the building was occupied by cleaning personnel and security folks....bit of a difference with a few thousand workers. Fact remains that RESCUE is the first priority which was the case on 9/11. Fact remains that the fires on 9/11 were on the 80 and above floors, not 11. Facts remains the elevators were not in service for FF operations on 9/11 as what most likely was the case in 75. Fact remains that FFs on 9/11 had to climb stairs up to the fire floors before even attempting to get water on the fire, not the case in 75.

Point is, you are comparing apples and oranges. Exposed steel when heated does expand (fact) when the steel expands it weakens the concrete which has very poor tensile strength. Letting unchecked fuel fed, intense heat fires burn onchecked on exposed steel creates the dominos for collapse. In 75, there were crews there and despite the amount of time it may have taken to fully extinguish the fire, the fact remains there was still water being put on the fire, thus keeping the expasion of said steel members in check.

Permalink Reply by 32ninbk9msq9k on February 4, 2011 at 1:08am

I simply do not believe that fire took down those building at near free-fall speeds. You can clearly see that WTC7 is a demolition.

I find this very strange too :FOX TV show airs that depicts a U.S. government plot to crash a hijacked Boeing into the WTC six months before 9/11!.. and they even went so far as to blame it on a small faction of people in the government using remote controlled devices and patsy terrorists to jump start the war/profit machine.....

Crazy to think that while some Americans were writing a T.V show, some people in a cave and in America training to to do almost exactly what I believe happened.

Read about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Salem
He actually recorded his conversations with the FBI that proves their foreknowledge and assistance with building the bombs that were used in the '93 WTC attack.

Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on February 4, 2011 at 1:45am

Once again - very valid set of points with our response to 9-11, but that has nothing to do with the fact that 19 guys took out a bunch of US real estate.

If you weren't aware of America's history of meddling in the middle east prior to 2001, I don't know what I can say to you. Here's some highlights:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_barracks_bombing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_Accords

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_%281991%29

Permalink Reply by 32ninbk9msq9k on February 4, 2011 at 3:30am

Dwight Eisenhower warned us about the possibility of the military industrial complex gaining too much power and autonomy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

Kennedy warned us about a conspiracy along the same lines: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNFCIaG9TwQ&feature=related

Rumsfield, Bush and Cheney lied about WMDs. They offered information that was known to be false repeatedly.

We are involved in a never ending war. Constantly being lied to by politicians that promise one thing and then do the exact opposite.

I guess I'm just connecting the dots.... and there are so many more that you won't find out about until you start looking. The problem is that most people are too over-worked and distracted by other things than to explore "ridiculous conspiracy theories" as they are stigmatized on the television. BTW there have been TONS of actual conspiracies.... why has that word been given such a bad rap? Millions of people conspire everyday.
A conspiracy only requires that 2 or more people do something in secret. The pentagon papers proved that a string of presidents were lying, misleading... conspiring to get involved in a war in Vietnam, all the while telling the American public the opposite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_Papers
What's so hard to see about all of this?

Permalink Reply by rfdjumper on February 4, 2011 at 6:20am

So new guys why don't you educate us. Without quoting or linking to other websites. Tell us what you think transpired on September 11, 2001. (911 is a phone number not a date, 9/11/01 is a date). My one question to you is were the towers hit by Boeing commercial airliners in Your opinion?

Look forward to an interesting read.......

Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on February 4, 2011 at 6:54am

Rondo - you're missing a massive point here: none of this has dick to do with the fact that 19 guys, mostly from Saudi Arabia, crashed 4 planes on Sept. 11 and took down the WTC. That this was exploited by the Bush administration has nothing to do with the event itself. You discredit yourself by buying into this conspiracy crap, and that makes your valid points (WMD, Pentagon Papers, Gulf of Tonkin incident) less believable, even though they really happened.

Just because everyone calls 9-11 truthers "ridiculous conspiracy theorists" doesn't mean they aren't a bunch of ridiculous conspiracy theorists!

Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on February 4, 2011 at 6:58am

A picture is worth a thousand words:

Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on February 4, 2011 at 8:29am

At least since the Kennedy assassination, people have positited that our government (along with the wealthy) is operating behind the scenes to manipulate us, the country and the world in ways that are designed to make a handful of people wealthy.

Given the time (and the proper motivation) I'm sure someone could develop a theory, with *adequate* proof that our government is manipulating the weather. And that this winter is a result of the government's preparation for developing massive storms, during which the military will take over the country. [Yeah I know, absurd, but I'm working on the evidence right now. Look at this last storm, 2100 miles mile! And what about (coincidentally) the huge cyclone in Australia?]

Personally I believe that there are people who long for simpler times (colonial america? western frontier days? early 50's? Seems no matter how far one goes back, any point in time had its down side; disease, starvation, war, violence, corruption, manipulation.) Buying into huge, Machiavellian conspiracy theories, with twists and turns, plots and subplots and massive disinformation campaigns of which only a handful of people are able to discern the truth border on the psychotic. Arguments are often clear and linear and laid out in such a manner that the theorists are truly perplexed that nobody else can see the truth that they see.

To me the bigger question is this: WHY do YOU believe that our government killed its own citizens?
In biology, parasitism is the act of one organism benefiting from another. Some parasites kill their host, others live with the host causing little or no harm. What you are proposing is amensalism, where the parasite (our government) harms or kills the host (us). What good would that do? How would the wealthy benefit if the world spirals into self-destruction? Eventually only the wealthy would be left to fend for themselves. Not exactly the kind of lifestyle they tend towards (who would do their lawns?).

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• …
• 7
• Next ›
• Page