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Grammar and spelling
I'm Joe Nobody, from Nowhere. I'm a high school graduate, no college.
I get so tired of carelessness.
I've decided to rant about carelessness in print. If you don't like what I have to say, and you think it's perfectly acceptable to litter posts with misspelled words, horribly improper grammar, lack of punctuation, start your own thread. This is my personal appeal to clean things up.
I get a headache from trying to figure out what someone means, when "there" is used instead of, "they're", or, "their". Maybe it's a minor point to you, but I have to stop and decipher what's been printed. The problem is only getting worse, as it seems that no one cares.
Spellcheck is your friend. Please, use it.
Please, learn the differences between "your" and, "you're", "there", "their" and "they're".
"Two", "to" and, "too": please learn the use of each.
"Etc." is the abbreviation for, "et cetera", which means, "and so forth". It's Latin. I don't know what, "ect" is.
It's, "used to", as in, "I used to have no trouble reading the printed word."
The apostrophe has its uses, but please learn where it's used and where it's not.
It's properly used to denote possession, such as, "Gary's" or, "Pat's". It's not necessary in words that already denote possession, such as, "hers", "ours", "his" or "theirs".
It's unnecessary, and even confusing, when used in words that are plural, but are not possessive, such as, "truck's", or "pike pole's". I don't know who started that.
It's also used in contractions, such as, "it's" which is the contraction of, "it is".
It's, "definitely", not , "definately". Think of the word, "finite", if it helps.
Typographical errors are one thing. Blatant spelling errors that have become far too common have just become a sign that we've become lazy, and that bothers me.
I'll be blunt. When I read a post that is full of common errors, I form an impression that it was written by a dummy, or someone who is just too lazy and careless to take the time to learn the language we use every day. Some posts are so bad that I skip past them. I'd be willing to bet that there are others who have the same reaction.
C'mon folks, let's clean it up, please.
Thank you.
I get so tired of carelessness.
I've decided to rant about carelessness in print. If you don't like what I have to say, and you think it's perfectly acceptable to litter posts with misspelled words, horribly improper grammar, lack of punctuation, start your own thread. This is my personal appeal to clean things up.
I get a headache from trying to figure out what someone means, when "there" is used instead of, "they're", or, "their". Maybe it's a minor point to you, but I have to stop and decipher what's been printed. The problem is only getting worse, as it seems that no one cares.
Spellcheck is your friend. Please, use it.
Please, learn the differences between "your" and, "you're", "there", "their" and "they're".
"Two", "to" and, "too": please learn the use of each.
"Etc." is the abbreviation for, "et cetera", which means, "and so forth". It's Latin. I don't know what, "ect" is.
It's, "used to", as in, "I used to have no trouble reading the printed word."
The apostrophe has its uses, but please learn where it's used and where it's not.
It's properly used to denote possession, such as, "Gary's" or, "Pat's". It's not necessary in words that already denote possession, such as, "hers", "ours", "his" or "theirs".
It's unnecessary, and even confusing, when used in words that are plural, but are not possessive, such as, "truck's", or "pike pole's". I don't know who started that.
It's also used in contractions, such as, "it's" which is the contraction of, "it is".
It's, "definitely", not , "definately". Think of the word, "finite", if it helps.
Typographical errors are one thing. Blatant spelling errors that have become far too common have just become a sign that we've become lazy, and that bothers me.
I'll be blunt. When I read a post that is full of common errors, I form an impression that it was written by a dummy, or someone who is just too lazy and careless to take the time to learn the language we use every day. Some posts are so bad that I skip past them. I'd be willing to bet that there are others who have the same reaction.
C'mon folks, let's clean it up, please.
Thank you.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Capt. Chris W. Button on
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Eye agree! It seams that no one uses good grammer or spell check any more. It’s a cryin’ shame what peoples are due in to the language of hour four fathers’
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Permalink Reply by Firewriter on
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On Firefighter Nation, we have people from all backgrounds, as well as all ages - from teens to retirees. If they make mistakes and the, "Grammar Nazis", attack; what message are we sending these members? Are we telling them to, "Shut up until you know how to spell, punctuate, and use proper English"? If so, where did we acquire that right?
Come on; let's get real here! Yes, it is irritating for those of us who prefer proper grammar; however, it is not our place to judge, embarrass, or belittle any member on this site. To do so is - quite simply - wrong! In this post, there are ample opportunities for me to point out errors; but, because of my respect for each of you, I refrained from doing so.
Enough said? End of diatribe.
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Captain Button, may I nominate you as, "Chief Grammar Nazi"? I promise, you would receive my vote! :)
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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FW, if someone puts forward a subject and has errors in the body of the work most readers on the site will correct them. So why should they put up with poor spelling, grammar, word use or punctuation? Readers reply (correct) people on their opinions and beliefs, why not writing? It is not belittling, it is teaching, sometime harsh but teaching none the less. We are firemen after all.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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So firewriter, where others have said spelling and grammar is important here in FFN you now are (arbitrarily) decreeing that it ain't so? From whence do you derive your authority?
One thing (mostly) everyone agrees on is that to be a fireman one needs to have exceptionally thick skin. And clearly you've spent little (if any) time in a fire house and so you (as do some others) think that everyone needs to be warm and fuzzy. Why? The real world (or at least that of the fire service) isn't warm and fuzzy so why should it be any different here?
And the one thing that you appear to overlook is that in here, people ARE judged by how they presents themselves (whether or not you personally approve). I agree no one is perfect and I'm nowhere near delusional enough to think that I am, but I do use my spell check, proof read before I hit send and even go back in and edit when I've found errors or to simply make something clearer. In other words, to me what I've written is as important as HOW I've written it.
"If they make mistakes and the, "Grammar Nazis", attack; what message are we sending these members? Are we telling them to, "Shut up until you know how to spell, punctuate, and use proper English"? If so, where did we acquire that right?"
In essence, yes. And why not? Some of the posts and replies are so poorly written that it suggests that firemen in general are illiterate, ignorant and uneducated. And from the egregiously poorly written comments one would be hard pressed to disagree.
Finally, if one, in the calm and privacy of their own home/room/basement in Mom's house can not put together a cogent, logical and understandable thought, how are they going to do it on the fireground, or in written reports? Not being a fireman this may not seem important to you but those that are, it is important.
I'm guessing you subscribe to the 'No Child Left Behind' school of thought. As for me, I think there are more than a few 'children' that should have been -or need to be- left behind. Not everyone succeeds and the proof is in the (FFN) pudding.
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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So as not to repeat myself, I thought I'd just re-post my comments from a previous thread. (Assuming this doesn't count as repeating myself).
I'm a huge fan and frequent practitioner of ball-busting. However, after a while, the ball-busting can take on a life of its own. It becomes a way not to admonish someone, but to denigrate him.
As important as proper spelling and grammar are to clear communication, I've never been unable to understand what even the most illiterate FFN'er has tried to convey in a post. I do find it frustrating, but I manage. I'm much more distressed by the sad state of public education in our country - which is clearly on display in the forums - than the display itself. I also quickly realize that I know any number of firemen who, as was once famously said of Terry Bradshaw (Hall of Fame quarterback), couldn't spell 'Cat' if you spotted them the 'c' and the 'a'. But, like Bradshaw, they're good at what they're supposed to be good.
I'm not saying we shouldn't tell it like it is, but it shouldn't be more difficult to be civil than crass.
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I'm not disagreeing with you WP, but the whole kumbaya thing that some advocate is a little too over the top. I'm sure you're a patient and understanding captain but I'm likewise sure you don't want to be bothered because the boys are not being nice to the probie or someone is getting his ass busted. Step in if (or before) they draw blood but otherwise, they'll tire themselves out. Same in here.
I've seen discussions here go south in a heartbeat, where everyone piles on and tears out a piece of the unlucky victim. Mostly, that happens with discussions of politics and religion, I haven't seen a feeding frenzy just because of spelling or grammar errors. Now underwear salesmen, that's a horse of a different color.
P.s. What's a terry bradshaw?
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Words, whether written or spoken, are largely perceived as a reflection of the intelligence of the sender. If you hear a speech by someone who says "like" frequently, it gets irritating. (To me at least.) I could go on and on with examples but I think everyone gets the point.
In the Fire Officer and Fire Instructor books, this is what could be called Internal Interference. In the case of the written word, the Sender has sent a Message to the Receiver via writing (Medium). The Receiver looks at the mistakes and sometimes has such a problem with them, he cannot get past them to see the Message. Or perhaps the Message is written in such a way that it has multiple or even opposite meanings from what is intended. The Receiver sends Feedback to the Sender in the form of, "What the heck are you trying to say?"
Also, you need to look at the audience/reader/listener. Sometimes you need to adjust your message to be appropriate. Sitting around shooting the breeze with your buddies, you might express yourself one way. Writing an official report which is a legal document, you hopefully would express yourself professionally.
The main point is, anything worth doing should be worth doing correctly. The problem is that "correctly" is not being taught. It's all about Almighty Self Esteem. Can you imagine a recruit screwing up during a drill (let alone a fire scene) and saying to him, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, but there is a small chance that what you did may not have been done in a manner which is befitting the currents standards of the department. If it isn't too much trouble, after you've had time to process your feelings, would you mind doing it again?" Oh wait, that's what HR wants us to do.
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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"If they make mistakes and the, "Grammar Nazis", attack; what message are we sending these members? Are we telling them to, "Shut up until you know how to spell, punctuate, and use proper English"? If so, where did we acquire that right?"
At the same time, what message are we sending when we DON'T pounce on the violators? Are we then saying it's ok to be lazy and seemingly uneducated? And I believe it IS our right to help educate those less fortunate ( or less motivated). Some, genuinely, just have a hard time with it all but do the best they can. I, personally, would like to help. So, a sincere correction, without the rock throwing, could be a positive thing.
As mentioned previousely, there are spell checks that can be used as well as proof reading your own work. I know I don't want others to see me as, seemingly, illiterate. If you can't take pride in your "work" here, then what's your work ethic like on a call? Just to clarify, when I say "you" and "your", I am not talking to anyone directly.....you know what I mean.
I admit that I am no scholar in grammar, or anything else for that matter, but I do take pride in what I can do, and do the best I can with what I have. And I personally don't understand why someone would not...other than trying to get it done as fast as they can for whatever reason.
Apparently I am in a ranting mood, so I will cut it short before I get myself in trouble. As for the rest of the rant.......whatever he or she said, ditto.
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Thank you, WestPhilly!
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Permalink Reply by David Earl Gregory on
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Derek, I think what you and many others are trying to say here, (myself included), is that poor spelling and grammar and lack of proper capitalization and punctuation is indicative of lack of attention to detail. I especially liked the response from Capt. Chris W. Button on the teaching of "The Almighty Self-Esteem" curriculum in our schools. Teachers in some areas are no longer allowed to use red ink when correcting/grading assignments because, "someone might be offended." Sheesh, gimmie a damn break here. I'm 55 years old and when I was in school red ink was the norm. If you screwed up, you caught hell about it in class AND when you got home. That's not the case these days. It's all about "outcome based education" wherein, if you show up for class and don;t shoot, cut, or stab anyone during the day, you pass. Doesn't matter if you graduate high school with a 2nd grade reading level, you showed up and you tried. Well, that didn't cut it in my day and it shouldn't cut it today. People wonder why we're in such sad shape in America today? Look what we've allowed to happen!!
Lack of attention to detail. I jump someone at work every damn day about about it. I'm in the fire and security business. We build fire alarm and detection systems, video surveillance systems, etc. EVERYTHING each employee touches has the ability to make the difference in whether or not someone's life is saved or lost. Attention to detail determines whether it works when it's supposed to or whether it gets shipped in time to be installed and running when it's needed. I often quote the line from the movie The Towering Inferno, "What do they call it when you kill people?", when making my points.
It's the same when writing and responding to web discussion groups,blogs, etc., if your writing is illegible and/or difficult to understand, you're not going to come across as well as you'd hoped. I'm no grammatical scholar in the broadest definition of the term, but I do think my words can be read and understood with relative ease. The most difficult part about internet communication is the facial expressions and tonal inflections of the voice are missing. The simple greeting of "good morning" can be spoken and facialized in such a way to run the gamut from ecstatically happy, to highly irritated, but none of that can be transmitted via a keyboard.
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Permalink Reply by Roger Neal on
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Hey"Joe", you are right on. People in the fire services want to be viewed by the public as professionals (it isn't about pay). Acting professionally, includes writing skills. And poorly written reports can change the meaning of what you meant to say. Be aware, as the reports can used in a court of law against you. Here is an actual example. How would you like to be in the witness chair and try to defend your report when you have included this?
""The accident happened because I had one eye on the truck in front, one eye on the pedestrian and the other on the car behind."
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