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Do You Take an Attack Line In When Performing a Primary Search?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Blake Sexton on
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It depends on how big your dept is, and how many respond to the fire . At my dept we are very short 2 to a truck so we do not have one specific job . Me personally I am taking a line with me , if you get in there and get turned around how you gonna find your way out. We just had a firefighter in a neighboring dept do exactly that he and his partner we doing a search without a line they got seperated the fire spread really fast his partner got out but the chief did not he got turned around and ran out of air. He was finally found unconscious was pulled from house and had to life flighted to er . His lungs got the worst of it and is still fighting for his life.
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Permalink Reply by Courtney Sanders on
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Do you remove the victim, or do you fight the fire?
Life safety, Property conservation, Incendent midigation....... Save the victim, let the house burn
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Do you remove the victim, or do you fight the fire?
Life safety, Property conservation, Incendent midigation....... Save the victim, let the house burn
And there in lies the dilema with such actions. Without a line, it is simple, get the victim out. If searching with a line, it really depends on the situation....are there other crews inside depending on that line? Would conditions rapidly deteriorate if abadnoning the line to remove the victim? Are there crews available to come in and remove the victim? Do you try to back out with the line and still able to remove the victim?
That's the issue, there really is no cut and dry answer and all such things which should be considered if saying you always have a line in for searching. It is about the size up, conditions, and resources where the decision has to be made.
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I mean i would rather have a hose to know your way in and your way. Even if you dont encounter fire its still a great help if you get lost. The way I see it your hose is your life line. But thats just me.
Same thing can be accomplished with a search rope. Same thing can also be accomplished by staying in contact with the wall.
There are many different ways to do search, relying on one way is not very effective, nor would you be able to do so in all cases. What happens if the hose is cut with a collapse? What happens if you are cut off from the line? Relying on a handline to find your way back out also is not foolproof.
Perhaps concentrate on learning to call a MAYDAY and what to do if you find yourself in a MAYDAY situation, than to just rely on the handline.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Doesn't Phoenix have truck companies? Do they search with a hoseline? If not, doesn't that run counter to your comment? If they're supposed to search with a hoseline, what do they do if they arrive on an occupied WF prior to an engine company's arrival?
Just wondering...
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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Nothing save more lives then a properly placed hoseline
Well said!
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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Then you are screwed if it flashes, I am willing to bet Phoenix ladder companies do not search with a hose line. Check and let us know, ask the truckies not your training guys.
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What are you talking about using a search rope, staying in touch with a wall and if the roof collapse and cuts the hose well then your more than likely dead anyway. A rope will keep you and your partner together does not get you out. The wall will just lead you around the house if you are searching your not going to be in the fourer your going to be in bedrooms and firefighters who have fought a lot of house fires know that you can't see your hand in front of your face on a good fire . Your hose is your life line. This just goes with what I was talking about the firefighter getting hurt he did not have a line . What do you think would have happened if he had one. I was on the ambulance at that fire, my partner is the one who intubated him so I saw the shape he was in. I'm sure he went up and down every wall he could find. Sad thing is no one was even inside the home. Depts all have different sops but at my dept we go in with lines our safety comes first.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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Thankfully we don't use those. They would serve no useful purpose. I only know one large city department that uses those and that's St Louis. They hate them so much that they are slowly switching back to true trucks. It makes sense for a smaller department, but when you have a large department with big responses and more resources it's kind of stupid. They said that in St Louis many companies would not perform the correct tasks when they arrived since your quint acts as a truck or engine depending on your responding position.
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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Engine guys don't touch tools and us truck guys don't touch hose. (Squads help the trucks with search and overhall etc.)
I think what needs to be pointed out is that with City depts. Like Indianapolis,DC,Philly,Chicago,Detroit etc. We can have multiple pieces on scene with in minutes. And still get more in very quikly. As a truck guy i'm able to do my job because I know that the engine guys are doin there's. As for coming up to the fire, that is how we do search. We go to the seat of the fire and search outward. Anyone trapped nearest the fire is in the greatest danger. Another thing that is SOP for us is, the attack line doesn't put out every bit of fire. What I mean by this is that lets say you have fire in a residence the fire is in a back bedrm in the CD corner. Fire has rolled into the living rm.some furniture is going. The intial attack line will move quikly through the living rm they may spray a couple spots but there moving fast as they do. The attack lines goal is to reach the seat of the fire. It is the responsibilty of the back up line to get those hot spots and insure the fire does not get behind the attack line. First due truck is responcible for search, a crew of 4 gets split into 2s. 2 go in and 2 stay out and do VES and vent then they'll go in. The 2 inside do search. 2nd due truck is ventilation then they'll come in and do search or overhaul. These are all dictated by size of structure etc.
Just remember every person on the fire ground has a job to do no one job is more important than the other.
Before you ask. Yes in many cases if the engine isn't on scene when we arrive, we will still go in. Not into all, but most times we will. It may just be quik VES. We take stock of the situation, calculate the risk, tactical stuff blah,blah..All in miliseconds and then act.
One more thing, If you are on a engine and arrive first, the best way you can help save a person is to put out the fire as quikly as you can. No fire means no heat and toxic smoke stuff to kill them. If you try to search with a line your not goiing at the fire and it's just getting bigger. In IFD stopping a line is the same as retreating.
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If we don't use a line then we will be in and out 10 times faster that you would be with that line. So it will be done before conditions get too bad. Like Gregory Borg said, if it flashes, you're screwed anyway.
Also like I said, most big city departments don't have hose on the trucks. I actually don't think they even make tiller trucks as quints. 14 of our truck companies are tillers because of the narrow streets.
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Permalink Reply by 1rj2h45m1igap on
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no the primary search is to be done as quickly efficently as possible, dragging a hose line behind you hinders your ability to do that,. Just decide if you are going to do a left or right hand search and stay with what you decide to do. Get in search and get out you have an attack crew already inside.
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