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Do You Take an Attack Line In When Performing a Primary Search?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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This statement didn't sound much like you had room for anything else, regardless of what you said elsewhere...
"As I have said, it is best practice to take a handline, and if your practice is to enter every structure without one, than you are playing with your own life." (emphasis supplied)
Perhaps you'd like to read some of the other posters' responses - no one said that other than you.
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One other thing - "squirt gun to a gun fight"??? The point of searching without a line is to avoid the gunfight completely.
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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I get what you are saying, I am sure there are a lot of smaller departments that do the same as we do, good training, focused leadership and the right attitude and you can make it work.
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I guess you did not see that searching is Ladder work/operations. Engine work is getting water on the fire, it is that simple.
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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Buff,
It's awfully presumptuous of you to say "we" when referring to the PFD.
I would bet a gazillion dollars that you're wrong when you say Phoenix ladder crews don't do searches. As Greg points out, it's a basic ladder company function.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Phoenix ladder crews dont do searches its always the engine company that does the ladder is only there for ladder oprations. Like cutting the roof breaking the windows ect. THe engine is always RIC
When I am in Phoenix for ALTS in January I will talk some "shop" with some crews and find the actual answer. I agree with the other guys here and saying truck companies in Phoenix don't search is a bit of a stretch.
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Buff,
I doubt you offended anyone.(Maybe some Phoenix ladder guys, inadvertantly). I'm sure you're misinformed on this one.
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Besides, it is Phoenix doesn't do not don't do. Phoenix is always spelled with a capital P because it is the name of a place, and sentences begin with capital letters, at least in the American west they do.
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From reading Phoenix's SOGs, it appears that they assign two engines and a truck together as an "Attack Team" In that configuration, one engine is the attack engine, one is the water supply engine, and the truck does the search and rescue. The fact that an engine or two handles the hose work means that the truck doesn't take a line.
PFD's Fireground Safety SOG goes on to state that "...a search team should be protected with a charged hose line..." It doesn't say they have to take their own line. This SOG goes on to state "If search personnel are operating without a hose line, life lines should be used when encountering
conditions of severely limited visibility." That clearly states that PFD does indeed search without a hose line if the situation requires it.
Having an engine cover the truck work with a line is a vastly different proposition from having the search and rescue company take their own hoseline with them as they search. In fact, while ALL Phoenix fire companies have "search, rescue, and treatment" as their primary responsibility, only the engine companies have "stretch hoselines" and "operate hoselines" listed in their primary responsibilities. Truck and Rescue (Medic) companies do not.
And buff, just because a ladder isn't spelled out as operating independently on one fire doesn't mean that they never do it.
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If you're trying to earn respect from firefighters, you're going about it in a very unusual and counterproductive way.
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If it was that easy for me to look up PFD's SOGs online, it was equally easy for you to do it.
A little friendly advice - next time, do your homework before you argue with experienced firefighters on a public forum.
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Ben,
At least you didn't break his balls about the grammar.
Buff, don't sweat it. Everything's gonna be beautiful.
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