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What is with all the Booster Lines in the U.K.?
NOTE: I first posted this in the Scottish FF area but wasn't getting any feedback, save for one suggestion to post it in the main area... so here it is:
I first thought it was just "Hollywood U.K." making technical errors on shows like "London's Burning" and such... but I keep seeing it in news footage now as well.
Why do I keep seeing U.K. firefighters using little one inch "Booster" Lines for their primary interior (or even exterior) attack lines?
I am seeing them being used in the U.K. for significantly involved structure fires... not low intensity ones or mop-up.
Without the right volume of water going onto a fire, I see a delay in putting it out and even a danger to the interior attack crew. There are times when an inch-an-a-half is not big enough for interior attack.
Can someone enlighten me?
Are there different materials in U.K. homes that make the fire less intense?
Also the bunker gear I see (mostly the LFB because of the BBC and YouTube) APPEARS to be thinner than North American interior rated bunker gear... looks more like the "exterior-only" bunker gear (which my department has banned for safety reasons - don't want anyone accidently donning exterior-only gear for an interior attack). Is that the case? If it has the same protection rating, why haven't we moved to it to lighten our load? Or is there just a completely different style of interior search and supression that allows for lighter PPE?
Thanks for helping to satisfy my curiosity!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bekks on
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Booster line being used for structure FF - also the lighter weight bunker gear:
More Booster line:
And another shot of thinner/lighter bunker gear than North American Structure Fire gear:
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I dug out my IFSTA textbook, just to verify for the "fact checkers" out there...lol.
I apparently remembered that lesson in hose selection almost verbatum.
Too small of a hose line being dangerous for anything bigger than a small rubbish fire.
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Permalink Reply by Carl Watson on
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I could not find any information about hose or apparatus. I did find the information on the gear:
http://www.bristolfireapparel.com/index.cfm
They use NFPA1971 and a European standard also.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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I do believe the nozzles used are a low pressure, higher volume type for one. I visited a firehouse in Manchester, UK and got to see things up close etc, but not an expert. A few things that do stick out from my European travels is number one, building construction. You definately see more fire resistive type of structures in Europe, or at least the UK. This means fires are going to be contained more to the original building or room with mostly contents burning, vs the structure itself.
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Thanks, I checked this site (and it's U.K. partner's) out... say NFPA1971 (2000) standard...
Still thinner bunker gear... WHY is ours so bulky if it is made to the same standard?
Anyone involved in the FD garment industry on this site? lol
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Okay, so I was close with my fire load material theory....
But the volume of the nozzle doesn't matter much if the hose can't carry enough water fast enough.
The friction drop-off switiching from an inch-and-a-half to a 2 inch hose is significant (remembering my pump pressure lesson). So a booster line won't be bringing a high volume to the fire...
I just dug out my IFSTA Fundamentals of Fire Fighting book again...
It SCREAMS in a bright yellow and black box: " CAUTION For interior fire fighting, the smallest handline used should be a 1 1/2-inch (38mm) line to provide a sufficient volume of water to cool the fire and protect firefighters. "
I am curious as to what science or theory is behind the prolific use of boosters for interior attack in the U.K. as there seems to be a really strong case against it on this side of the pond...
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If I do remember correctly the engine in Manchester had hose bigger than 1" on the reels. Not a metric type of person so can't really state the actual size, but there were different size hose available, bigger than just a booster line. Just because the hose is on a reel doesn't mean it is a booster line.....in the Navy there are several hose reels, minimum of 1 1/2".
The pics you are using don't give justice to the actual question, meaning the pics can be misleading. The first pic of the fire attack may appear to be a booster and they are going in.....or they could be spraying water in and shutting the door while perhaps bigger hose is being deployed. Also it just appears to be a booster....but what is the actual diameter?
The second pic with the hose deployed, again same question. What is the actual diameter, just because it was on a reel doesn't make it a booster line.
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Permalink Reply by John Kriska on
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I have attached an article written by Dave Connolly from the Dublin Fire Brigade. The subject is the differences in ventilation tactics of the US and Europe, but he does mention their interior tactics.
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My question was not based on a couple of isolated pictures, I just found those for example. I know there are more 1 1/2 inch lines making an appearance and also 2 " and bigger as well, all depending on the fire.
John Kriska's answer appears to be right on the money!
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AWSOME ANSWER!
WOW... never thought anyone would prepare a RESEARCH PAPER for my question!
LOL
Seriously, I had some theories about building construction being a factor but combined with different venting techniques, rapid attack, and all the other points made in the paper, it answers my question on ALL points!
Thank you for sharing the research you found! Glad I am not the first person to have noticed the difference and even more glad you and Mr Connolly had the opportunity to have already looked into it before!
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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Similar systems are used here in Australia, although my brigade does not have one. The booster you see used for interior attack is a high pressure line. I don't know the pressure or flow rate, but I do know it's a bit meatier than a regular 3/4" or 1" booster line running at 125psi. I've asked the boys how it works, but it's hard to make the comparison with American tactics because so many things are done differently. The HP booster is the fastest way to move water on a fire, but they don't have pre-connected canvas. It deploys much faster, but they don't pre-pack minute-man loads (shoulder and drag load). The smaller apparatus (necessary in Europe because city roads are much narrower and turns tighter) drive a much, much different setup and approach to fire fighting.
Regarding the gear: I know the green turnouts they issued us are about half as good as what we had back in the US. First time doing hot training with them, I got burned all over. On the plus side, the heat stress isn't as bad in summer and you feel the heat from the fire a lot sooner, so the chance of getting trapped in a flashover is a lot lower. You could make the argument that thinner gear is actually safer, because it keeps you out of trouble.
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Thanks for the info on the hose, it is all starting to come together for me.
Different building materials mean less structre involvements and you are mostly going up against contents. Narrow roads = smaller trucks. Faster attack. Different vent tactics. High pressure lines. etc.
It's all starting to make some sense to me.
As for the Bunker gear... so it IS thinner but still compliant with NFPA 1971-2000 and has the "old school feel the heat so you know to get out before it flashes" factor - that some would say is an advantage.
Sounds good (except for the burns).
Nothing is perfect I guess... what factors in making the choice though? Risk assessment based on assessment of the majority of fire loads depending on what your country has?
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