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Asking Questions: On Arrival Size-up for Officers and Firefighters
Greeting all, I am looking to make two, 10 question check lists for fire size up, one for officers and one for firefighters.
The goals:
First A list of ten things to ask yourself as a firefighter on arrival that address major common components of safety, the savable, incident containment, mitigation, stabilization.
Next A list of ten things to ask yourself as a officer on arrival that address major common components of safety, the savable, incident containment, mitigation, stabilization.
The questions:
1. Short is the key and topic is general, what where who, how many, etc.
2. Firefighter focus on things like personal and team safety, team communications, gear / PPE, tools, Escape & personal fitness / health.
3. Officer focus on topics like crew safety, resources, rehab, level of emergency, communications, command, operational sections,
The answers:
Please let me know what your mental checklist is and most important what are you looking to find out, obviously a question list is not going to yield multiple choice answers that cover the vast array of calls we might face. but the list of questions, developed or your own can keep the juices flowing in the brain.
If you can't or don't have ten to put out there, no worries cause there is no need to come up with ten, even one might make the difference.
After this:
I intend to take the answers and toy with them as subjective items, assigning classifications and a value to them then compare those values and subjects against established stats to see where the common stress points are. Finally taking the compiled data and seeing what firefighters and officers are thinking and how and what they should, could and perhaps need to be thinking.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sparky3317 on
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Firefighter: (These are just quick thoughts, they may change depending on your position on a truck or engine, first in or are you additional apparatus.) Also a good resource is the urban firefighter magazine theres a good article on size up in there for additional information http://epaperflip.com/aglaia/viewer.aspx?docid=e5dbba89b09640c5a040...
These are just some quick things for a firefighter on the first in engine as the pipeman
1. Wheres the fire
2. How much fire is there
3. Am I going to have my own hydrant or am I waiting for the second in companies
4. What line am I grabbing
5. What type of structure is it
6. Anyone reported trap
7. What line am I grabbing
8. Can I force entry without the truck company
9. Entrance and egress
10. Make sure all ppe is ready to go
Possibilities for a firefighter on the truck company as an outside vent man
1. Where am I putting ladders (if needed)
2. Is VES a tactical thought
3. Is there any thing blocking the windows for ventilation
4. Egress areas for the engine and other interior firefighters
5. Wheres the fire
6. What size ladders am I going to need
7. What tools are going to be best
8. Will entry need to be made for the first in engine
9. Anyone reported trapt and where
As the first arriving officer:
1. Where and how much fire is there
2. Type of structure
3. Whats the color of the smoke
4. How many crews will be first in
5. Will I need mutual aid to cover RIT and two in two out
6. Will the first in engine have sufficient water till other crews get there
7. Where am I setting up my IC
8. Should this be defensive or offensive attack
9. Any other instructions, or information I can pass to the crews before they arrive
10. And complete my 360 for a full size up
Just some quick thoughts nothing major if I think of anything else Ill get back to you.
Hope this helps and I hope the link helps also
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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I have a "down and dirty" size up that I use... it may not be PC, but it is a hel lof a lot easier that remeber the 13 step WALLACE WAS HOT or COAL WAS WEALTH pnemonic.
Building construction
Location of the fire
Occupancy
Water supply
Manpower
Equipment
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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As an Officer these are the things I used to think about
On Dispatch
1- Where is the incident located, how will I get there, what time of day it is, where is the 1st and 2nd hydrant
2- who is reponding - what companies and what are they bringing and which way are they coming.
3- who do I have on the engine - for vollies, you have to know thier capabilities and it always changes
4- what type of structure is it
5- additional information from callboard while enroute - listen to the radio to know who is responding. I always hate to hear officer ask who is on the road.
On scene
6-can I see anything coming close to the address so I know to lay in or bypass
7-what type pf dwelling or structure, age, location to other buildings, tree etc. Should be able to see 3 sides
8- What do I need at the scene or have units stage - depends on the situation
9-what do I need to handle the situation I have, are they onscene or on the road? Daytime I might need to be a couple of steps ahead
10-Delegate and communicate. Tell the people what you need and let them do the job.
Its been a while since I was a FF so I'll leave that to those who know.
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Permalink Reply by Mitchell Donovan on
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That is basically just it, since the order and operational needs are going to be changing from call to call and the first in piece might be ?? a common tasking for all calls and personnel is what i want to get out of this adhering to that all important KISS. take the engine and truck and put them in one and you get a hell of a list to try to accommodate. adding in command to that might just make it flat out too much for some. the issue i am facing that prompted all this is the gap between experienced officers and well trained officers in my own company, as well as what i have seen in surrounding MA companies. i am a young officer with (what i feel and hope is) a good mix of both, but i am seeing a lot of time being wasted on hasty (bad or ineffective) decisions or indecisiveness. so how to train this out of ourselves is my project. I am figuring on short, consistent and adaptable points that are in that top ten. I follow this line as a first arriving chief, 5 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 min and 90 seconds. 5 seconds to panic and second guess, 30 seconds to set up IC, 1 minute report and instructions and 90 seconds to be have my 360. it works for me, but i even still miss tasks now and then getting fixed on a side or an issue. My biggest lacking is in instructions to incoming apparatus. but my goal is always to have established command, assigned operations and made a mode decision and got my resources coming (requested) in 2 minutes. i want to get the other guys on a similar page, and i am thinking that saying "arrival, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10! go!! would work. priorities are in place for most things but critical thinking asking those questions on arrival and thinking out the solutions is vital. we can only get it from doing it or practice, but i know that i practiced my ABC, SAMPLE and OPQRST in band-aid school, i still don't get it right (not by the book anyway) in the field. So i started carrying practical quick-sheets, in the correct order by protocol and i miss something less often now. but that is all just digression from the main point, sorry... anyway thanks for the post god stuff.
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Size up starts at dispatch not when your onscene.
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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And I haven't seen "Are any lives at risk?" yet.
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Permalink Reply by John Karl Ambrusch, III on
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Anything regarding establishing a command system and accountability?
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Yes and no, dispatchers aren't there and are going off unreliable information. So, initial response or in route size up is limited to five components. 1) time of day factors, 2) resources, 3) closest units/eta, 4) reports of & 5)your distance/eta. the fact is that anything else is speculation, except where pre-plans or site data is available. The biggest issue with in route size up is creating expectations for what you going to arrive at. Like they say, "if you hear hoofs don't go looking for zebras". think of those 99 alarms and the one that is real. it sounds cliche, but it is true. but you raise a good point in continuous size up.
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Norm if you take a look at my post I did talk about the engine and ladder firefighters thinking if anyone is reported trapt and the location. I did though forget it during my officer questions.
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