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Firefighters Running On Scene
I have a question for other departments regarding firefighters running on the scene. I see many news clips and even some clips here showing firefighters running from building to pumper, pumper to building and accross lots and yards. What, if any, are your policies for running on scene?
When I was on the department, we were trained never to run on scene, and especially when carrying equipment. When I was in training, I was on a scene helping with overhaul. One of the officers asked me to get a fire ax from the rig. Well, to be so helpful, I took off running to the rig. I didn't get far across the lawn before I was yelled at by the IC. He told me we don't run on scene as it gives an perception we are not in control. (Firefighters never panic, right????). Anyway, I discussed it with our own department folks later, and they all agreed, it isn't safe, and it doesn't give the impression we are in control of the scene.
What are your thoughts on this issue? Do you allow, encourage or restrict the running of firefighters on your scenes?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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Yea, we are all IFSAC certified. Our training academy is an 8 month academy though. 8 hours/day, 5 days/week for 8 months.(that's about what the last few were it seems) So we learn the book way in a few weeks and then after passing the tests we move on to the DC way.
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If you want to do a poor job, then sure I guess that works. Trying to put out a fire from the outside when only a room or two is off is pretty ridiculous.
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Haha. At least you two have a sense of humor. It's called pride and I'm glad you two have it as well.
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Permalink Reply by Rob on
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Chief Ed (and Ben), your breakdown of the examples I gave was pretty good, you got all the solutions. However what you missed was that I was treating those hazards in the exact way most people seem to treat running, and that is to say 'just don't do it'. Obviously my facetious remarks are not the way we deal with things (as I wrote immediately after the list), and the running issue should not be treated the same way.
I would prefer people to apply the same level of thought, common sense and training into avoiding injuries WHILE running, the same as you do WHILE you are doing all the other things I listed.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Rob, if quick extinguishment is the most important thing, just grab the nozzle and stick it in the window from the outside.
That will extinguish the fire much more quickly than running into the structure.
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Rob, the problem is that you were treating those hazards in the same way as running, when they're not the same kind of hazards.
You put the one "orange" of running in to the "apples" of things that are inherent hazards of the job.
Running isn't inherent to firefighting.
"I would prefer people to apply the same level of thought, common sense and training into avoiding injuries WHILE running, the same as you do WHILE you are doing all the other things I listed." I woudn't, because running reduces situational awareness, and that is already in short supply on the fireground, especially the really smoky ones.
You've included running as if it is an essential to good firefighting. It clearly is not.
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Why is it ridiculous? Simply sticking the nozzle in the window is clearly quicker than running inside. The only thing I've heard from the "running on the fireground" advocates here is that it's quicker. If that's the justification for running, it's an even better justification for exterior firefighting - at least on anything that has fire showing.
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I already replied to you posting this before but:
If you want to do a poor job, then sure I guess that works. Trying to put out a fire from the outside when only a room or two is off is pretty ridiculous. You're just going to push the fire back inside the structure and ruin more property. I know some departments think that there's no point on going inside if there aren't any people to save, but that's not how it works here. I took an oath to save both the people AND property.
That's probably one of the most ridiculous arguments that I've ever heard actually.
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Same here CapCity we learn the "book" way then the last 2 week of fire school and we do city skills and learn it the city way. Capcityff these guys are so up set about running could you imagine what would happen if they found out what other stuff does no get done by "the book" in an aggressive fire dept?
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I woudn't, because running reduces situational awareness...
I understand why you think that and it can be true some of the time, but don't forget this; Your situational awareness is what tells you when to run and when not to! Situational awareness tells you that you might have a time critical task to complete. If you are not going to act as your situational awareness tells you, then firefighting is probably not the career path for you. (Not you specifically Ben, generally speaking that is)
Running is not an essential part of good firefighting, I can do everything at walking pace. But running when warranted makes me a more efficient/better firefighter. Running is just another 'tool' or method to complete our job as quickly as possible.
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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Um? I hear the Safe-Ish expert is lurking around again.
We train to be operating within our SOP's an we are always watching out for each other to do our work in a efficient and safe manner. Running on scene dosnt fall into any category I would support.
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Yea I agree. Honestly there's so many posts I hold back from even commenting on because I know most on here will go crazy and lecture me on how we do it wrong since they can't accept that there's differences in big and small city departments. When I have you(Baltimore City), 55Truck(Indy), and WestPhilly(Philly) agree with me 99% of the time though, it only proves the point even more. This one I decided to state my opinion though. I guess that was a mistake.
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