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Self Dispatch Or Insurance Co. Saving Scratch - Discussion Thread.
On April 16, 2005, Andover, IA volunteer firefighter Justin Faur attempted to rescue a co-worker who had fallen into a manure pit at his place of employment. Both men later died.
At issue with the fire department’s workers compensation insurance carrier was whether Faur was acting as a firefighter or as an employee as a result of his efforts to save his co-worker. The insurance company (Travelers) contended that Faur was not acting as a firefighter at the time.
Initially, a deputy workers compensation commissioner ruled that Faur was both at the time.
Travelers appealed to the Iowa Supreme Court and the Court sided with Travelers.
So, when is a volunteer firefighter “on duty” and at what point is a volunteer firefighter NOT a private citizen, but is “responding” to an emergency?
Here is my blog on the issue:
http://www.firefighternation.com/profiles/blogs/self-dispatch-or-in...
What do you think?
TCSS.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Reg Mathis on
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Or how about this one. I'm a vollie, and on Monday evenings, I usually stop by the station and gather up the trash and take it to the dump. If I trip and break my arm while doing this, am I covered.
And...
There is a group of us that meet at the station 6 evenings a week to work out. If one of us gets hurt while engaged in this activity(the purpose of these workouts is to make sure we are able to pass the MANDATORY Physical Agility Test the county is imposing), are we covered?
TCSS
Reg
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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CAPT723
I would have to say NO your not covered on scenario number one. No duty to act. Your are a good samaritan. Now officially notified is the common term used for WC claims and without it there is the arguement of no duty to act. Plus if you get hurt, WC is gonna research times of notification, department policies, procedures about PPE. That same scenario happened to the brothers who rescued the kids trapped in that mini van rollover with fire.... I wonder because they were off duty jakes, if they had to eat the lost time, pain and suffering of burns, medical bills and the hardship of the heroic act of saving another life without PPE and a duty to act.
Scenario number two, no time stamp to say no, you would have been found on the ground when another responder came to the station and the paperwork would have shown you were responding to the emergency post tone alert. Unless you felt compelled to tell them.
Duty to act, official department business, fine lines...
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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There are two different issues being presented in this discussion. One, the original intent of this post, that being workers comp, and another which relates more to liability/property insurance.
I cannot speak for all states, but my department here in Texas does not have workers comp insurance per se. We have an insurance policy which covers not only our people from on the job illness and injury, from the time we are paged for a call until 30 min after we get home, and it also covers personal property and vehicles during the response. So in a way, it is a type of workers comp, but different.
We also have a liability policy which would cover injuries sustained by members of the public on department property, and we have property insurance which would cover instances of someone falling while "taking out the trash", or "going head over heels on the apron." This is much different than workers comp.
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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Depends on the State you live in...In Indiana a sworn firefighter paid or Vol. you have a duty to act. There for if you are a Vol or a off duty fire fighter at a job or walking through the mall...You have a duty to act and are covered by insurance etc.
I'd let the news media know that a family of a FF killed while attempting a rescue is being denied $$ for the death by the insurance co.
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Here is another question? Why didn't the employer provide the proper equepment and training for this pit. Obviously it is a confined space. One way in and out. It produces a toxic evironment. Were the workers provided proper breathing equipment to enter here? What training did they have to enter the pit? Was it up to date? How often did/does the employer train on this? Does the employer have written guidlines for working in or around the pit?
Did the Firefighter have any training in Confined space or Hazmat? Did his dept. Do any training in these two disiplines? If they did do they have records to show the FF was present and completed these trainings.
If this FF had even an awarness level class in Confined space or Haz-mat. He would of known not to enter a Manure Pit. If his employer had provided the proper training & equipment this may not have happend. Or he would of been able to put on his SCBA and enter the pit to rescue his co-worker.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph L. De Laura, jr. on
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Would there be any question if the God Almighty dollar wasn't involved? Of course not. The volunteer would have been a hero for trying.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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This was a farming operation and I believe that they are exempt from OSHA guidelines.
In other cases where there is a confined space, the employer must designate a rescue team.
In many cases and much to the surprise of the fire department, it IS the fire department.
It wouldn't surprise me if that isn't the case here.
IMO.
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I don't know about the almighty dollar, but Justin Faur was awarded a civilian medal of valor for heroism posthumously.
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In doing a little bit of research, apparently Justin Faur's death was not considered a Line of Duty death as defined by the Department of Justice. A search of the Roll of Honor of the NFFF, indicates this as well as his name is not listed.
A "civilian medal of valor" can be bestowed to any civilian for heroic deeds, not just a volunteer firefighter. What he attempted to do was heroic and probably worthy of such an award.
Courts typically look to the wording of the law, and in cases where there is no clear definition, then they must rely on the intent of a law. Since there is not a clear definition of when a volunteer firefighter is "on duty" other than; "when responding to or in the course of their official duties," or "summoned to duty," then the court must apply the intent of the law.
I believe that had his death been ruled a Line of Duty Death, then there would have been a clearer definition for the court to interpret and in all likelihood, we wouldn't be having this debate. I also believe that perhaps, a better definition of when a volunteer firefighter actually on duty needs to be addressed in state and federal laws, thereby giving the courts a clearer direction to follow for future cases.
This will come up again.
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