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Car Fire. What's Your Angle of Approach?
Just curious to know what other dept. sop,, to approach car fire with all the air bags cylinders ,magnesium and stuts that when explose are projected at 45 deg. angle!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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with all the air bags,magnesium and stuts that when explose are projected at 45 deg. angle!
Typically the worry is going to be the shock absorbers from the bumpers, etc that may explode. The 45 deg angle is typically how you should approach the fire, so you are not going directly in front of or behind the bumper.
Magnesium intensifies when water is applied, that is why you have PPE on right?
Air bags, aren't a concern on the fire until you may have to overhaul. There still may be some voltage stored in a capacitor to set them off. Basically, don't go inside the vehicle unless necessary.
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Permalink Reply by Capt.Jocelyn Chiasson on
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Hi John
I know what you mean that is not new to me, what i refer to is the new article that is in i beleave firefigher engineer about firefighter going to car fire approching it at a 45 deg. angle and geting hit by parts of the strut that are on rear window back door hood etc... because went those part let go they are projected at 45 deg. also the air bag cylinder that inflated the air bag under high heat it build pressure and may explose that not rocket science here just wondering is it time to change our training method...
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Based on the article in fireengineering.com I don't see as that's an issue. Fire under the hood, approach 45 degree angle from rear indirect attach to knock down fire and keep from unburned area of vehicle. Fire in the rear a similar approach, 45 degrees from side towards rear. Fully engulfed then an attack from the side, staying away from either front or rear bumpers.
So to answer your question, I would say yes, change your methods. It removes firefighters from the hazard zone with no decrease in efficiency.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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What behavioral trait did they suggest to change in this article? I didn't read it but how about not approaching from the rear at a 45 degree angle if the car has rear hatchback (struts) ???
I know of no such SOP / SOG / Action Plan on how to approach a car fire. The variables are too many and a policy would create a greater concern. The problem with most close calls you see on youtube is the sizeup of the car fire basically sucks, they approach too fast without using the fire streams fullest reach to cool any visible hazards and then say it is dangerous to approach that fire at any angle....
OK so the front and back are a concern because of the shock absorbers.
OK so the sides are out because of exploding tires and shrapnel.
Now the 45 approach is hindered by piston shock absorbers on struts.
What I do know is you don't know what is burning in the car, truck, van, etc. I have seen first hand those little propane camping cylinders explode and come out of a pickup truck bed with a truck cap on it. Hadn't even stretched the line yet and flew right by. (158' from the car). No real pattern to that near miss. It's sh*t luck and in reality just business.
Maybe we should just deck gun it.... then call for another engine to mop it up when you run out of water in 2 minutes. Firefighting is at times dangerous, sometimes you have to be a little vulnerable to complete a task.
We could always let it burn out.
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FETC,
I may not have been clear, the article suggests an approach of 45 degrees, from the side of the vehicle towards that part of the vehicle that is on fire, eg. the front or rear, with the bail open and reach to knock down the fire and push it away from the area(s) not on fire. So for an engine compartment fire, an approach from the side, towards the front at a 45 degree angle (I don't think measurements need be taken on this). Bouncing off the pavement to underneath the engine/vehicle. Once knocked down water is used to further cool the bumper before any attempt to open hood/trunk. This is as opposed to approaching the vehicle's front or rear at a 45 degree angle (in other words, approaching the front or rear corner of it).
There's no magic to it, only that the article suggests only approaching the vehicle from the side where there is less risk of being hit by a strut firing off.
My opinion, a car fire is a dumpster fire on wheels, same caution, similar potential for hazards but it ain't going anywhere. If it's actually on fire, it's a total loss. If it's a small electrical issue, a CO2 extinguisher works great by introducing an inert atmosphere.
Here's the link - http://www.fireengineering.com/index/articles/display/3834052916/ar...
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Jack I knew what your were saying. I posted that reply to the OP. We must have been typing at the same time because you weren't in the game yet when I originally hit the reply button.
What you describe is how it is taught in FF1 around here. The OP suggested maybe time for a change in their training method. I just wanted to hear the purposed changes.
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Permalink Reply by John on
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We will always try to come in at an angle so as to possibly not get hit by the bumper if it was to let the strut cusion lose during a fire as well as the hood struts. But alot depends on where the actual fire is and what type of access we have to the vehicle too.
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Thank you Jack for the link that the one i was reffering to!!!
we can see on the pictures that anyway you approch the vehicle you in the line of something that can just knock you of your feets!!!
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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I agree with Jack. You can second guess yourself to death about what if's and issues all day long. You train to deal with car fires and the hazards they present. Deal with each scene as it presents itself keeping in mind the issues. Do you NOT deal with a call because of all the what ifs and bad issues? Of course not. You deal with every call using your training,experience and resources available.
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Thank you Chief!
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Not trying to over simplify this. We will become more and more aware of issues to add to our knowledge base. However, there will always be a job to be done and thats what we do best. Use that knowledge and get the job done as safe as possible. Now! Where's our Safe-Ish expert? I'm sure he would have some wise words of astute wisdom for us all on this subject.
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