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Should Fire Chief's be Allowed to Fight Fires ? !!!!
i dont think they should be. thats what the FireFighters are for.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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What skills are you talking about.
Chiefs need to keep their strategic, command, communications, and safety skills up.
Their ladder and nozzle skills - not so much, particularly in career departments with an assigned division of labor, regardless of whether it's a union shop or not.
If a chief is practicing his nozzle or ladder skills, that chief is spending time on skills that are a distraction from his/her actual duties.
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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I've got more respect for a leader who is willing to step in and help and has helped and understands the issues we face TODAY as oppossed to skills they learnt 20 years ago.
Not saying those 20 year old skills are worthless (far from it!), but....
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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lutan,
The chief's job is command. If he's advancing a line or opening a roof, he's robbing his men of the opportunity to perfect those skills for themselves.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Westphilly.....I didn't say he "should" do it....I only said that he could as long as command was properly transferred......
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But we're not talking about doing it all the time. I agree that the members need the skills, but....
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I know. I'm pointing out the down-side of that. The guys need to get the experience, not the chief.
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lutan,
Any department that would ever operate in this fashion - with the chief not commanding, but firefighting - sees precious little fire. He needs to do the I.C. and the guys need to do the firefighting.
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The problem is that when the leader is doing non-leadership work, that often creates a leadershiop vacuum.
You don''t see the Mayor sweeping the streets or inspecting buildings.
You don't see the hospital administrator treating patients.
The three levels of command (Strategy, Tactics, and Tasks) framework puts Chief Officer responsibilities at the opposite end of the spectrum from task-level firefighter duties.
There is a big difference between knowing how to supervise firefighter tasks and in maintaining 100% proficiency in performing those skills.
I'm a chief officer in charge of a training division. I sometimes demonstrate a task-level skill in order to help firefighters learn, but when it comes to performing that skill at a fire or rescue, if I'm doing the firefighters' jobs, no one is doing my job.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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I would have to respectfully disagree with the others. A Chief's job is Command and he/she should be well versed in the role. When we start allowing Chiefs to operate as line members, we will never be able to justify more manpower.
The public does not understand that the Chief on scene is not extra manpower. He is Command. When extra manpower is needed, we need to call for more manpower and when another Chief is needed, we should call for another Chief.
We need to stop graying firegound duties together and either demand more manpower or accept that some duties will not get done or at least not in a timely manner. This is the only way we will ever get the publics attention. If we keep making it work, then our last ditch efforts will become the expected standards on scene.
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Worse, departments that operate in this fashion sometimes have multiple-LODD events whose genesis can be traced back to chiefs ignoring their responsibilities; operating at the task or tactical level rather than at the required strategic level.
Chiefs are responsible for maintaining the big picture. Operating a hoseline, placing a ladder, or venting a window isn't a big picture job.
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Shareef....Again I am not saying that they should only that they can if and only if command is transferred properly.....Check out Fire Officer I course and see what it says about IC and command...It does NOT (command) automatically go to the highest ranking officer...Might be a Lt. or a Capt. that responds with the first alarm...they have command until relieved...I have seen examples where a Chief has arrived on scene and did NOT assume command as The Officer had things well in control....and yes this is proper and accepted.....Remember it is the Chief's sandbox and he makes the rules and He has to stand by his decisions and HE is ultimately responsible....
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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For a while in my company every officer over chief would fight fires on assist. We would let the Lt or Capt run a fire to get experience. By the time they became Assistants they knew what to do and let people below them rin fires. Working structures and large incidents chiefs would keep command.
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