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VES
I know there's a lot of smaller volunteer departments on here and I was just curious how many of you use VES on a regular basis.(Career departments too) VES, Vent Enter Search for those that don't know, seems like it would actually be fairly beneficial to smaller departments because you can get more done at once. Here the hook man on the truck and sometimes the tillerman will perform VES. We already have the bar man inside forcing doors and searching by himself in front of the engine company. Then the rescue squad has two teams searching as well. If the hook man is throwing ladders, it saves time if he just does a quick search since he's already breaking out the window.(We never throw a ladder without breaking the window. Otherwise there's no point in the ladder)
Here's a nice video by a guy I work with. He's the tillerman on 17 Truck. It shows how quick you can have a ladder up, ventilate, perform a search, and get out by yourself. He recorded it with his helmet cam and used it for a training company run by himself, other DCFD guys, and some FDNY guys. Hope this helps some people. He has several others on YouTube as well that are interesting.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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Roy,
The whole idea is to get into the room and shut the door, sweep the room and get out. Maybe 60 to 120 seconds. If heat starts to rise get out. The other firefighter was watching while he was in there. You need a partner to watch your back while inside but the outside vent man does not need a partner per say, just if he enters. His other duties can be done alone. We have found this manuver to be very effective, our Ladder 1 crew made a great save 2 years ago during a VES, fire was blowing out over their heads when they came out with the kid.
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Permalink Reply by Roy Walker on
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Thanks Gregory guess I need to write some S O P s and start some training lessons. Always glad to hear from the brotherhood.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Okay I guess was mistaken. I thought the point was to "Get the fuck in there and search", turns out there's an entirely different reason for going in there.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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How incredible to read a such a well thought out post, that sheds light on a concept that will be new for many people. The author (capcityff) does not assume that everyone is familiar with this technique and shares his insight through the use of both didactic information and video to illustrate the key points. This is the kind of post that to me is actually meaningful and worth comment. Thanks for raising the bar, god knows we can use something other than the traditional FFN bantering about a myriad of topics that have been posted, and posted and posted... and don't ever feel like you are the only one out there pulling hose... there's a handful of folks out there in FFN land who take the time to put some good material together, post it and then only to find that folks don't care much... check out the comments, the folks that matter are for the most part here for you, just read their comments... Keep up the good work brother.
Mike
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Permalink Reply by Rusty Mancini on
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My department is a small volunteer dept. and we do perform this type of operation. It's like Gregory has stated, get in fast, perform your search quickly! That's the point I drive home to our members in training, you don't have the time to lag in performing this task.
We do pair up so one keeps an eye out while the other is performing the search.
Just some advice.... train, train, and train some more before performing this type of ops.
I too.. want to thank you for an educational topic!
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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I'd answer your question, but Gregory pretty much hit every point perfectly. I think he said in the video that he signaled to someone that he was going in. You only need that one person because it shouldn't take long at all. Just a quick sweep, shut the door, get out.
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I wonder how many people "captioning these" have any idea about VES or, for that matter, anything at all about firefighting? Mostly I bet their really only interested in wearing tee shirts
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Good photo, FETC.
Were I the white-helmeted gentleman on Side A, I'd expect a stream to be applied through the front door very quickly to back up the VES team and to reduce the risk to them and the victim.
VES is a good technique when it fits the circumstances. It is a better technique when used with coordinated fire attack.
I do have one question, though. There was time to string the red fire line tape but not to stretch a line on this one???
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We teach VES, but we rarely use it due to a combination of factors:
1) Widespread use of smoke detectors, monitored fire alarm systems, and sprinkler systems in any structure bigger than a duplex.
2) Good response times - 90% fractile for first due was 5 minutes, 12 seconds the last time I checked.
3) Most victims self-rescue due to smoke detectors. We had a large SFD fire two nights ago. The residents awoke to the smoke detectors and self-rescued.
I can't remember the last time we needed to use VES, but it's a tool in the toolbox in case we do need it.
We're fully career, 7 stations, 5 engines, 2 quints, 1 truck, 1 B.C. on duty at all times with a peak-hour, parttime 8th engine co.
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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Either that, or they're really only interested in wearing tee shirts.
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Permalink Reply by Wade Seely on
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I'm on a smaller combination department and we have trained in ves, and regularly train for ves while doing other live fire trainings. I do agree that it is very dependent on a variety of factors as to whether to use it or not. We do work in pairs when doing ves just for the added safety factor, incase Murphy decides that he wants to come out.
Great post
TCSS
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So because a place has smoke detectors you don't search? We search every floor of every place anyway because you're going to feel pretty stupid when you think everyone is out and someone later goes missing. Many areas don't have smoke detectors in their house still. Even if its a low income area where we gave them one, they may have taken the batteries out for the tv remote or something.
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