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Why don't we copy the French Fire Helmet Designs?
One of the coolest things I have ever received in the mail, ever... arrived at my house a couple of days ago. It was from one of the friends I made here on the FFN, and he is from France, where he works as a professional firefighter. Like many firefighters, we both like fire service related things and are involved with trading things back and forth. What amazed me however, was the functional design that I saw first hand.
Up to this point, I have only seen photographs of french firefighters wearing a very unfamiliar fire helmet style. To be honest, I blew off the design because they just did not look like fire helmets. After having the chance to actually wear one, I offer the following insight for those, like myself, who never have had the chance to see what our brothers and sisters across the Atlantic wear for head and face protection.
The world just keeps getting smaller... I invite everyone to take the time to get to know others around the world with the spirit of sharing and providing the most up to date training and response information available. We are not alone, we have each other.
Prenez garde à rester en sécurité, (TCSS)
CBz
The Casque Pompier (Fire Helmet):
Built in Safety Goggles:
Fire Helmet Protective Visor / Heat Shield:
View Through Fire Helmet Protective Visor / Heat Shield:
Fire Helmet Heat Shield:
05-25-2010 Update: I made direct contact today with MSA and spoke with one of two sales reps that have knowledge of the French Gallet F1-SF Firefighter Helmet. Here's what I learned:
• These "French" fire helmets are manufactured by MSA, which is 100% USA owned and is based internationally out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
• MSA bought out the french company Gallet 7-8 years ago, which included this helmet design and manufacturing rights.
• Existing USA style fire helmets are rated to no more than 1500˚F, while this particular style is rated to 1800˚F. Why more? The same technology used by NASA for astronaut helmets visors are incorporated into this design. Both the helmet and face shield reflect the heat, keeping the interior of the helmet cool, with maximum interior helmet temperatures reaching around 95˚F.
• The existing F1-SF helmet does not meet NA standards as mentioned in one of the posts. However, there is such a demand now for this style that MSA is working on providing a NA approved helmet that has the same features but also possesses the necessary impact standards.
• What we are looking at is a glimpse of what the 21st century firefighters are going to be wearing, internationally...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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John - I think the point Lutan and I were expressing is that performance should trump tradition. I have never seen one of these style helmets up close, so I have no meaningful opinion other than the one's I've posted above (basically I like the brim because it keeps the rain out of my face at MVAs). If a proper comparison shows that one significantly outperforms the other, we should go with the better technology, even if it is weird-looking.
I'm a huge fan of tradition where it doesn't impact our performance or safety. I still think all fire trucks should be red and have a bell on the front. I love that in Chicago they have a green light on the starboard bow (no idea why or even if they still do this) of all of their apparatus. None of these traditions matter one bit for our safety or how well we do our job.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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I disagree here Vic.
The issue I see being made is some faux sense of a superior safety issue, which isn't really the case. All helmets here in the states must conform to the same safety standards, everything else goes towards opinion.
On a slightly different comparison would be the use of goggles vs safety glasses. Both must meet the same standards to be considered safety eyewear, but yet the argument will still be made that one is "safer" over the other, not the case. It still will come down to personal preference and opinion. For instance I have used goggles since they were required in middle school shop class, that was the rule of the school district. Once in the service the eyewear requirement was that the eyewear met the safety requirement.
Now, in the fire service, such a debate is still there. I have used goggles and glasses and like helmets, see pros and cons. I prefer safety glasses to goggles. I have heard all the arguments about goggles being safer and so forth, but I have yet to have a pair (again going back to middle school) where goggles didn't fog up. To me that is a bigger issue than the so called added protection.
As for the helmet issue, the debate will just go back to personal preference and opinion. Since the helmets meet the same standards, it is difficult to say one is better or more safe than another. As I mentioned before I have used several styles of helmets (sans the Euro) and found pros and cons, but never found one that really is "safer", especially when meeting the same standards. I have yet to have a case where the helmet did not protect me, where I had burns to my neck, face, etc, because the current gear meets the standards.
That is the point here Vic, as long as the standards are met, there is no problem with maintaining the current traditions and personal preference.
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Permalink Reply by John Dobson on
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Agree with lutan1. Most have not tried it and it's not been tested but they are judging it on looks alone.
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Most have not tried it and it's not been tested but they are judging it on looks alone.
John, the issue remains that a traditional style helmet, a salad bowl, and the Euro style must all conform to the SAME standards. Everything else becomes an opinion.
As for considering life saving, I haven't seen too many LODD reports or even LODI reports where the helmet worn was the biggest contributor to the death or injury or where this other style would have been better etc. That is the point, so as long as the traditional lid meets the same standards, then it doesn't matter if one thinks this other style is better or not, it comes down to opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Richmond on
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Brian,
I am going to agree with you. I served on a German Fire Department for better than a decade and they are probably more aggressive with interior fire fighting than here in America due to the style of construction that is prominent in Europe. Most of their buildings that are constructed after WWII are of poured concrete and very difficult to make an exterior attack on. Also due to the building style most of the fire remains compartmentalized or what we would refer to as room and contents. Standard American ventilation methods are a pain and they are very progressive of Positive Pressure Attack, still gets pretty hot which is a factor in their use of pressure vs volume pumps on their engines. TCSS
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Permalink Reply by Karr Quintero on
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looks like it would scare the hell out of a kid when trying to rescue, american style is a trusted and familiar welcomed sight. and they wook fine long as your not in a department that got them hood ornimates on them...lol
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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I think the point Lutan and I were expressing is that performance should trump tradition.
Spot on!
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I think the point Lutan and I were expressing is that performance should trump tradition
And I'm saying there really is no difference, sans look. The traditional lid performs just as well as the Euro lid, in the end, there really is no reason to trump other than personal opinion.
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All valid points, John. Don't get me wrong, on the "cool" factor, tradition wins! Measuring against the NFPA standard is sort of bogus, as an even safer helmet could potentially be built which far exceeds the current standards. Lets say I could build a helmet that far exceeds the standards, would it than be worth switching?
Meh. You make a very valid point that the thing killing us isn't unsafe helmets. (for the record I knew guys who got burned because they did not deploy their ear flaps - the Euro-style would have avoided injury). Rather than spending dime one on designing/testing/deploying new ones, I'd argue you'll save more firefighters figuring out a way to make them drive better and wear their seatbelts!
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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a helmet rated to 1800 degrees doesn't do one much good ....Turn-out gear is rated to about 700 degrees....
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Brett...your "arguement is that they "fly into space".....wake up....its a movie....LOL I like the US style....I admit it is based on tradition....but I don't care......as for following the French....well that's another thread.....
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