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Not Carrying Equipment Due to Mutual Aid
In college my roomate worked as a volunteer for a town of in Vermont. And he told me one time that they did not carry jaws on any of their apparatus. When I asked him why he said because the chief told the department that if a extrication comes in they just call one of the mutual aid departments and would rather not spend the money on the equipment.
Now I know almost 90% of the people on here maybe even close to 100% depend on mutual aid at one time or another. Not for every call but alot of departments cant handle certain calls do to staffing issues or other reasons.
But what if mutual aid isnt available?
Is the reason to not spend the extra money because you have mutual aid with the equipment a valid reason?
I know there is certain equipment towns and departments cant afford all the time but what about when you can?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sparky3317 on
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Why are you worrying about salvage, property conservation is last on the list plus that would be something to request mutual aid for not the cribbing your going to have to wait for to cut a person out of a vehicle especially if its going to be delayed mutual aid or no mutual aid at all. Firefighter safety and patient safety should be the number #1. You can always marry tools, and put equipment in the jump seats to. Medic engines dont need that much equipment. An o2 bag, monitor, drug box and first in bag should be sufficent. Because if you are not transporting then an ambulance is coming and they can carry the rest of the tools the medics need.
How many firefighters do you staff on an engine at a time?
If its like everyone else its 2 minimum most of the time 3-4 max. Two sets of irons a can, a couple hooks and extinguishers dont take up that much room if you start to marry tools together and mount them on the doors and in the jump seats. And if theres no truck company and your using only ground ladders marry a couple hooks to the tips of the ground ladders.
If you start combining tools space opens up alot.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Excellent points, and you hit the nail on the head when it comes to prioritizing life way above property conservation.
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Permalink Reply by George Shaw on
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Having the funds available is only part of the picture. With everything we add to our "toolbox" comes the responsibility to become EXPERTS with the equipment prior to useing it on a call. Buying the jaws is easy if the money is there, but if the department struggles to meet training requirements prior to adding new gear, the view point of relying on trained mutual aid may again have some merit. I have first hand responded as mutual aid EMS to find the host fire department OPENING BOXES and PUTTING TOGETHER the hudraulic system to opperate the jaws. They had NEVER used the stuff after receiving it as a"hand me down" from another department.........scary!!!!
As the range of service provided by a fire department expands with added equipment also does the responsibility to learn and constantly train in each of these areas.
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Permalink Reply by Leland Lavender on
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Do some research on grants and present to the chief then he can take it to your board then hope something happens.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Where does it end. What if your town didn't have a ladder, I know some chiefs who refuse to buy one, and just call a ladder from nearby mutual towns because they are available to him...
Question, was this a college campus fire department, which also has a town fd as well???
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Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on
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i just signed up and was lookin through some things and read this discussion and it really upset me.i found it very hard to believe that a fire department now a days does not have essential tools,that is of course you are covering and Amish area that is horse and buggy.Now I haven't a clue where this department is or what your tax base is to be able to afford but I would like to think that a town council would not want it's citizens or visitors through there town would leave them unprotected to this extent.I know about mutual aid as we use it all the time but we use it for mainly extra water in rural structure fires or man power to avoid fatigue or maybe an extra areial but to not buy extracation tools because a neighbouring department has them is just crazy in my mind.This is not mutual aid it's mutual dependency.I always look at situations like this in this respect.What if the person trapped in that car is your wife or one of your children tell me that you would be totally OK with the fact that you could not grab a set of jaws and get your loved one out of that vehicle.I could not imagine telling my wife or kids sorry hon you'll have to wait another 15 minutes or so while the other station gets called and arrives to start getting you out because we can't afford the tools we need to do it ourselves.And it may be a 10-1 cahance that they are out on another extracation call but it could,or already has happened.Not what I want to roll the dice on I tell ya.I've seen the fear and the pain in peoples eyes when they have a femur stickin out of their leg and their legs are twisted around everything in the front seat and I think that if I would have told them just hold on buddy we don't have the tools we need to get you out it will be a about another 20 minutes or so and we will get you out that is if they are not out on another call it might be longer they probably would have freaked out and was already lookin up a lawyers phone number.i would think that t he Cheif of this department would push with every means possible to get a set of jaws on his truck whether it is slamming his fist on the table in a council meeting or fundraising which our department has done in the past or if he really wants to hit home get the public involved.Public outcry is probably one of the best ways when a council is unreceptive.Sorry to ramble on people but this just struck a nerve with me and I hope that your buddies department gets this issue resolved before someone looses their life over this because I would hate to see the ramifications over this if that happened!!!
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Permalink Reply by Todd on
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Not enough information on the situation to make anything more than a general statement. How close is the mutual aid? How many area departments around them have extrication equipment? How many extrication calls do they do a year?
I can't see the justification of spending a huge amount of money for your own set of extrication tools when you only have 4 or 5 pin jobs a year and you have 3 departments within 10 minutes with sets already.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Where does it end. What if your town didn't have a ladder, I know some chiefs who refuse to buy one, and just call a ladder from nearby mutual towns because they are available to him...
Something like this I can agree with, the cost difference between a ladder and a set of jaws is huge. In many cases a ladder isn't needed, especially if there isn't the structures which would require one.
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John read my last question, I asked if it is a school run campus VFD, that supports the town, maybe they are not the primary FD.
But I also know some VFD's that are really small, maybe run 1 or 2 pin jobs a year, no major throughway and have no jaws... they call for the jaws mutual aid. It is not always about the money, plenty of grant money out there, it is about the volume of use (or lack of) and hence the lack of training and experience you will get from these departments.
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Nope just a small town up in Vermont
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But again with the other replys to similar posts like yours, 10 mins is a long time to wait for a set of jaws to show up to cut a victim out of a vehicle.
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Permalink Reply by J.R. Fitzgerald on
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No youre not forced to think that way. The Volunteer Dept that i was with for 10 yrs got a 80/20 grant and the community provided half of the 20% that was needed to get a set of jaws. that dept handles on avg. 300-500 mva's a year. and thier a small town in southeast oklahoma but have a major hwy intersection in thier district.
I promise when that tool is needed (WHICH I HOPE EVERY DAY IS NEVER) the people that think that way will regret that decsion. especially if the people in that mva are people they know or heaven forrbid a family member, and M.A. isnt available.
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