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Mutual Aid Setups
(Before you go on about how people have had topics about MA before, I'd like to present what my area does and see how other people do it similarly or differently)
Okay. In the national capitol area, back in 2007 there was some large meeting between all the major counties and their respective FD's. All units in the NCA now have a 3-number unit designator, with the first number denoting the county, based on this:
Units with a 0 or only 2 numbers come from Washington D.C. itself
100 Series: Arlington County
200 Series: City of Alexandria
300 Series: Washington Metropolitan Airports Authority
400 Series: Fairfax County
500 Series: Prince William County
600 Series: Loudoun County
700 Series: Montgomery County
800 Series: Prince George's County
The second and third numbers denote the station the piece comes from. For example, I live in Fairfax County, and my local station is 31. The engine from Station 31 in Fairfax County is Engine 431 or E431, the medic is Medic 431 or M431, and so on. Sometimes the stations have multiple units with the same designator, those stations are the volunteer ones, which are also staffed by career personnel. The second piece would be Unit Designator-B(ravo). The other exception is when a station has two ambulances or more ambulances. The first would be ambulance UD, the second Ambulance UD-B, and if the ambulance was only ever staffed by volunteers with EMT-B training, it would be Ambulance UD-E Closest unit responds, and additional units in the original box or subsequent alarms also could be MA.
Thats how we do it here, what about other people?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Similar set up with the 3, and in some cases 4, number designator.
I know many depts have gone to this, but we implemented using the 3 digit identifier in daily use and it sucks. Actually I think that whole system of a three digit identifier sucks. The argument is that I want to know who I have coming in mutual aid and if told EN-651, that doesn't mean squat to me. However, if I was told say Howard E-1 coming in, then I have an better idea. I just think this numbering system is BS.
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Permalink Reply by Ben "Batman" Barry on
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What Middlesex County CT does is the rural volunteer towns, the trucks are named town name and unit number. some towns have a department number and the two major cities in the county are plain old engine tower and so on. Also all county dispatch is done off of a county wide frequenc with each town having different operations channels. For example my town Middlefield rescue 4 is named Middlefield 4. You go one town over to Middletown with the 2 career fire districts name their trucks engine rescue etc, so Middletown city fire district would be Engine 1 and what not. The volunteer district in Middletown does the same thing as the rest of the county. Chiefs and other officers ave special radio designations it goes 10-department number for chief or 10-department number-1 for DC 2 for AC and so on. As far as mutial aid goes certain calls get automatic mutial aid such as house fires and water rescues. Middlefield a standard first alarm assignment will get you our department and two other departments. If we need tanker task force which is when we need lots of water we get pre determined towns send a tanker, level 1 is 5 tankers level 2 is n additional 5 tankers. We also have a system set up for major incidents in wich say during an MCI we will get every ambulance in the county. Other than that there pretty much nothing else I can think of.
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Hiscock on
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we do the same here....as Ben mentioned the town/city mostly have the town and engine name on their trucks....we do here also...
mutual aid consists of the following:
Local units: Engine 1 and Rescue 1, Traffic Services*, chief 1, arson 1,2 & 3
Neighboring town to the east: Engine 2,3,4,5 Rescue 2 Crash 1** chief 2
Neighboring town to the west: Engine 6,7,8 Rescue 3, chief 3&4
*= traffic services gets called to stations to the east and west, while local PD are last to be called
**= crash truck obtained from the military...mostly used for serious fires, including air port response
under "normal" conditions the emergency detachment on scene would decide if we need extra help/trucks...if we can take control of the scene on first arrival then extra help obviously isn't needed, if (and only if) we feel a need to gather a second and third alarm on scene then the town to the east would be called in....under no conditions are we to leave any town/settlement unprotected with fire service during any call. a couple of years ago the town to the east had a 4 alarm fire which required members within 100km's including the air port to respond.
that's how we do it here.....hope it's a little in site to you
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Permalink Reply by michael a backer on
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but what gets called out and when?
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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First off I agree with John, number systems are BS; Cops and dispatchers like them because they have been using for years. "Plain English" is what nims preaches; I don't have to get out a cheat sheet if you tell me "dept name" engine 1 or "dept name" rescue 1, don't care if there are 10 engine 1's the dept name is the designator. You say it's easier in a large scale incident...won't matter, if it's a large deployment the IMT team will take shoe polish and put their own number on your rig anyways.
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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
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Jonathan, how do like the change? It seems like it would work well with the county line companies
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Permalink Reply by Joe Workman on
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Here in my town we are set up with MABAS....so once we arrrive on scene if we are gonna need additional resources we pull a box number and whoever is in that box is who gets called, now exactly sure how it is set up because I am new to the dept but I can tell you that it seems to be very effective in getting the help you need quickly
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Halverson on
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I think it works a lot better than before, especially because some county's have cities and towns, and other area's that might be covered by the county, or have their own department. In Fairfax County we have the county itself, the City of Fairfax, which has its own FD but runs calls for us, the towns of Herndon, Vienna, and Clifton, and Fort Belvoir which has its own department. Everyone is organized under the county callsign. I don't mean this to offend anyone, but if your area has the 3 number designator in place, and you want to do your job better, if your smart, you'll know off the top of your head what county or city the piece is from, and where the station the piece is coming from is located. This can help with mutual aid, because you know, based on optimal conditions, how long they'll take to get there before they report to the IC their ETA. How many departments run units out of stations with non-matching numbers? If I'm told that I'm getting Truck 208 from the city of Alex, I want to be positive that Truck 208 is either coming from its station, or is in one of its boxes, not on the other side of the City from the incident. When you have counties running mutual aid very close to each others lines, its good to know that they won't get confused.
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if your area has the 3 number designator in place, and you want to do your job better, if your smart, you'll know off the top of your head what county or city the piece is from, and where the station the piece is coming from is located. This can help with mutual aid, because you know, based on optimal conditions, how long they'll take to get there before they report to the IC their ETA.
OK, can you please explain how a 3 digit designator is going to be any better than common terminology? See I know my area quite well, I know the departments in the county, I know their staffing levels, who is volunteer, combo, career, I know their locations and understand a time frame for travel. What I don't memorize, nor care to, is what the hell their 3 or 4 digit designator is. So care to tell me why a 3 digit designator is a better idea than saying the name of the dept and their apparatus designator (IE De Pere engine 1 or Bellevue engine 2) vs saying engine 5122 or engine 611 is responding?
Then there is the other common issue with departments crossing county lines in which they may have the same if not closely similar designators as another dept within the county. If I was IC at a scene I want to know who is coming in, if I ask for additional crews and now we are talking crossing county lines, and I'm told engine 211 is enroute....but I may know my counties engine 211 is further out than the neighboring county....how is that easier to understand?? Whereas I ask for an additional pump and I'm told Pulaski is enroute vs Menasha, then at least I have an idea of time frame etc.
Sorry, I really see this 3 or 4 digit designator idea as a complete waste of time and a pain in the ass. Not to mention the on scene issues encountered with similar rig designators and radio traffic. With all the perceived goals with NIMS, common language, elimination of codes, etc, this is a huge step back, and quite hypocritical from the "ad wizards" who thought of this crap.
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on
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In my county, we use 3-digits and 4-digits. It's not the best system, but it's what I learned from my beginning. EMS is all under one series, fire is mostly under a 4-digit, and police are everywhere.
Police, have unit designaters at 100 (101,102....) for the city, then 500,600,and 800 for small towns, but 600 is one town (601,602,602....) where 630 (631,632...)is another town, same 500, 540, 850, etc...by far the sloppiest of the system.
EMS isn't bad, all 400. EMS station 400, 410, 420, 430, 440, 450, 470, 480, 490, plus some sub-stations 419, 429...Most stations have 2 trucks...medic 401 and 402 from station 400....481 and 482, from station 480, etc.
Fire has a unique system, which is the 4-digit part and actually tells you what the piece is...First 2 numbers are the station 10,12,14,15,18,20,21,22,23,30,31,33,40,50,60,70,80,90.....you just have to know the station # and who it is...The last two numbers tell the piece, so you know what's on the road.
10's are engines
20's are tankers
30's are rescues
40's are utilities/QRS
50's are ladders or towers
70's are brush trucks or specialty unit (boats, etc.)
example....my station (station 10) has two engines, 1011 and 1012, a tower, 1051, a rescue, 1031, and a utility/QRS, 1041
Most counties around us have 4-digit for EMS, with ALL transporting unit starting at 50, and medic response units starting at 47 IE: medic 2447 dispatched to assist BLS unit 2651...
I agree with John....it's ALOT of numbers. I can move around my county and the 5 or 6 around me pretty easily, but I've worked only in these counties for 7 years. For someone new to the area, it is an absolute BEAR of a task to have ANY idea what's going on.
As far as mutual aide, the boxes are drawn up by each dept., so they choose who and what goes on each box for each type of emergency.
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I'm not saying that it's completely better than common terminology in every way. I'm simply stating that the way we do it seems to work pretty well for us, and trying to back up my statment.
See I know my area quite well, I know the departments in the county, I know their staffing levels, who is volunteer, combo, career, I know their locations and understand a time frame for travel. What I don't memorize, nor care to, is what the hell their 3 or 4 digit designator is. If they get dispatched with the numbers, which from your posts I can't tell if they are or not, why the hell shouldn't you know it? You can take all the information you know about the department, and apply it. If I was IC at a scene I want to know who is coming in, if I ask for additional crews and now we are talking crossing county lines, and I'm told engine 211 is enroute....but I may know my counties engine 211 is further out than the neighboring county....how is that easier to understand?? Having two engines in two different counties labeled 211 defeats the purpose of what I feel is better about the number system. I feel that it eliminates confusion. Say your radio spasmed and you didn't get the name of the town or county the piece is coming from, but you get the number... What do you do then?
All in all, I can see where you are coming from, but this is the way I've known it for as long as I've been in the fire service as an explorer, and I haven't heard bs from people that work for the county department as far as numbering.
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Permalink Reply by John Rutherford sr on
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In are county we have numbers system the first # is the dept then zero to nineteen is officers then it goes 20s are engins 30s are tankers 40s are grass rigs 50s are rescues 60s are ladders it works good
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