Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mark Klaene on January 21, 2010 at 9:53pm

Where the heck is the Chief !!

Surely he knows and condones this situation. If that is the case then there is where you have to start to fix the problem.

Permalink Reply by Eddie Rogers on January 21, 2010 at 11:44pm

RUN FOR THE HILLS.

All jokes aside I feel for you and your fellow members. We don't do fit tests of physicals but we do know the limitations of our members and have four safety officers to ensure that at least one is on scene. I am the training officer and would love to have certified instructors (NFPA 1041-1-2-3) on staff. Would make my job easier. I am currently trying to get approval to pursue my 1041-1 & 2. I don't know where you live, but in my area we have a insurance rating bureau that inspects the FD's every 4 years adn makes sure we are up to par in relation to our coverage area, manpower, water supply and the like. I am suprised you have not been cited or fined by your bureau if you have one. I wish you all the best. STAY SAFE

Permalink Reply by White321 on January 22, 2010 at 12:34am

Our chief is the bigest problem we have. He states that he does not care what the state or any book says we are going to do it the way we have always done it. Im not sure how we are rated noone but the officers now that. We do not even have any bylaws or standing orders. The officers are ok with this. I dont know what to do he just got voted in for another 2 years. Whitch I do not understand because everyone complains but only 2 of us will stand up and speak. So we are the outcast. Go figure try to make your department better and compliant and they go on a witch hunt.

Permalink Reply by Maria S. Avery on January 22, 2010 at 9:32am

Hello and welcome to Fire nation. My suggestion would be that if the issue's you state here are accurate and as deplorable as they seem, perhaps you can start by sending a registered letter to your board of directors. Begin lobbying within your membership for the change. Perhaps and I don't know how your station is funded you could try going to your board of commissioners, should that not work perhaps a certified letter to your ISO representative.

I feel that anyone who would be as derelict with the safety of ones lives as the scenario you describe needs to be stopped and stopped immediately. This is not only for the safety of the firefighter(s) but the consequences to life and property within the community are also devastatingly elevated exponentially.

While most departments have safety officers, safety does not only lie with the safety officer it is also the responsibility of each and every firefighter. However given the scenario you describe I am preaching to the choir. I wish you the best of luck in resolving the issues.

Permalink Reply by Mark Klaene on January 22, 2010 at 1:05pm

"He states that he does not care what the state or any book says we are going to do it the way we have always done it"

The problem is the world has changed around us and thus we have to change.

For example:
Houses are being built with lightweight construction that burns through structurally within minutes.
Household furnishing are made of plastic giving off higher BTUs than 50 years ago and don't forget the toxic (cyanide being one) gases.
Automobiles are traveling faster (remember the old double nickel) , have from 1 to dozens of explosive devices in them, are made of plastic or exotic metals, and some carry over 400 volts of electricity. Did we see that in the 70's ?
We run more medical related calls than fire calls.
There are twice as many lawyers and video cameras (counting cell phones) than just a few years ago. They are everywhere .

Did we not learn anything in the past decades about how to do things better. All the calls, all the research, all the training surely we got even a little bit smarter.

And Finally , were all of the firefighter LODD's in vain? Should we not learn something from the deaths of 100 firefighters annually. (that is over 1000 just since 2000)

I don't have the time, money, or enough members to enforce and comply with every standard. Nor does my state require it . But I try to meet what I can, improve on everyone, stay current with new technology and techniques , and that begins with frequent and productive trainings--even if it is just a 15 minute refresher.

Permalink Reply by Lisa Matschke on January 22, 2010 at 2:43pm

If your Chief and other Officers are aware of the problems and are not doing anything to correct it, you have a huge problem. Going through the traditional chain of command will be a worthless effort. Especially if, as you say, the few of you that speak up about it are called to the carpet and belittled for it. My suggestion would be to go directly to the Division of Fire Safety for your state. When there is essentially no chain of command to follow, you're left with next to nothing for recourse. The practices that sound as if they're routine on your Department WILL end up with someone being seriously injured or killed. Sorry, but the Chief, Officers, Board Members, and even the general membership won't be able to get out of a lawsuit with the "I didn't know" defense. A first year law student could get a conviction with the crap going on at your Dept! It's not an easy thing to do when you buck the chain of command, but in your case, there is none. Some ruling or governing entity needs to step in and make some serious changes to your Dept, and fast! I've been on the same end of the stick as you are now, thankfully, not near as severe, so I know it won't make you the most popular person around. But, you could end up saving someone's life, possibly your own, by pissing off a few people. In my situation, it was well worth it, and I would do it again.

Permalink Reply by White321 on January 24, 2010 at 8:55pm

Thank you for listening and giving some good points and advice. I was getting pretty beat down. It raises my spirits to know that I'm not the only one that thinks this way. Thanks for letting me vent.

Permalink Reply by Lani on January 26, 2010 at 12:35am

Apparently that is a bit how our district ran before our current Chief took over. Now we have at least 2 District run trainings per month (multi-station drill and OTEP) as well as at minimum 1 station training drill per month. SCBA's are fit tested and timed annually...we are supposed to inspect the SCBA's every truck check (only required monthly by volunteers, checked additional times by career staff)...I know I check ours, but I cannot say the same happens at every station.

Is there any way for you to start an informal training program on your own with fellow FF that feel the same and know the importance on staying current in training? We realized just a while ago our station is not training us on things we should be training on, so we have since joined another station on training nights to be sure we get the training we need. We also train with others that want more hands on training on the weekends.

Permalink Reply by Michael A. Pimental on January 26, 2010 at 1:42pm

Gee i know of a dept like this fire fighters never showing up to the couple of training sessions held a year. They're the cheifs kids so the chief says it's ok and doesn't mandate any sort of training or training attendance. VERY DANGEROUS!!!!!

Permalink Reply by Matt Nesius on February 20, 2010 at 12:16pm

Hey White321, I hear what you are saying. I work at a department with people with similar gripes, however, the ones complaining never seem to be the ones picking up the reigns and showing some leadership. Complaining and finger-pointing is not leadership. Have you tried to initiate documented programs, pack inspections, and training yourself. If you start doing it yourself, even if everyone else is standing around watching, sooner than later they will get the point and probably follow suit. It may take a week or two but hang in there. On a different note, you misspelled "ignorance."

Permalink Reply by Todd Rockwell on April 17, 2010 at 9:37pm

Wow. It starts at the Top Dog. The Chief MUST set the pace and stick to his guns even if this means they get bent out of shape. I went through a simular situation, not quit that bad though. Becoming Chief and turning our department around was the toughest thing I've been through, it tested my will to survive and stay. You have to make a stand. In some sever case you have to take it to the big boss, if you have one, like the City manager or board who runs the City ot Twp. Before I became Chief I was stuck behind a Chief who was weak, I took alot of crap and the membership was in termoil. I finally had enough and decided it was him or me! I had worked to long and hard to let him and a few others run me off. I made a stand and so did the members who wanted a change. They wrote a letter of no confidence, a group of 5 Firefighters had it oiut with him and ultimately left. I stayed the coarse and basically ran him off by irritation and persistance. I called him out on his faults and the members who wanted change had my back, the others eventually left and we hired more. We are now very structured, organized, safe, great trainings, great turnout for calls, its almost fun again! I decided if it couldnt be fun again , I was done. Lucky for me I had support from enough staff and at home in my family, without them I would have folded.

Permalink Reply by Ringold15 on July 9, 2010 at 1:15am

all i know is i tryed the same thing on a form outside this group and got negitive responce, and now i say thank god someone knows were im coming from

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