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Nativity Allowed at Charleston Firehouse
CHARLESTON, S.C. - A South Carolina fire station that removed a nativity display following a complaint has put it back up after adding other holiday decorations.
The Charleston Fire Department announced Tuesday that one of its stations has modified its holiday display to comply with U.S. Supreme Court rulings. It has added a menorah, Kwanzaa Kinara, Santa Claus, elves and reindeer.
Chief Thomas Carr Jr. says the nativity scene is one part of celebrating the holiday season.
The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter dated Dec. 17 asking city officials to remove the display because it promoted one religion over another. It was taken down in response.
Foundation co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor says the change is a sham but appears to fall in the law.
Related
Charleston Firehouse Ordered to Remove Nativity Scene
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
The Charleston Fire Department announced Tuesday that one of its stations has modified its holiday display to comply with U.S. Supreme Court rulings. It has added a menorah, Kwanzaa Kinara, Santa Claus, elves and reindeer.
Chief Thomas Carr Jr. says the nativity scene is one part of celebrating the holiday season.
The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter dated Dec. 17 asking city officials to remove the display because it promoted one religion over another. It was taken down in response.
Foundation co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor says the change is a sham but appears to fall in the law.
Related
Charleston Firehouse Ordered to Remove Nativity Scene
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Conrad M on
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The entire point was completely and utterly missed, Its 'CHRISTMAS'. Santa has nothing to do with the birth of CHRIST. The Menorah is a pre Christmas symbol of God not the birth of Christ, Kwanza is a ritual celebrating the harvest and the end of the season. Why don't we just drop a roast turkey in there and surround the entire thing with a full scale Stone Henge shadowing the manger! elves!?, elves!? WTF?
This wreaks of animosity and invidiousness. John C comment is on the mark that the solution is a circus and no longer represents anything. They've achieved their target of destroying one more symbol that represents 'hope and the family'.
and just the family...but that seems to be the problem the family is no longer revered is it?
Lets just stay home glued to our tubes, eat our candylike brain dead tv dinners and shut out the real world...
Take it back down guys. Put it up where it can't be ridiculed, vandalized, and sham WOWed.
Typically a Fire Deptartment (as 90% globally are Volunteer) is normally run by an Association and financed by raising funds and is therefore subject to an internal voting system not controlled by external forces. Fire Departments are not wholly financed by government as are police and other services and is not owned by the public.... how is this an issue?
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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CM, you are wrong about where the fire department's money comes from. Even though a lot of volunteer departments are incorporated and raise some of their own money, they are still a part of the state government (municipalities are extensions of state government), and for that reason, cannot advocate for or against any religion.
Regardless of that, Charleston's Fire Department is funded by the city, and is a career department, so it is 100% government owned.
I'm sorry if you feel offended, but that's what the Constitution says, so unless you would like to repeal the 1st Amendment, we're all stuck with it. The Courts have been pretty consistent on this one.
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Wow, yet another hate-filled, holier-than-thou Christian. Everyone wonders why I stopped going to church years ago.
Merry Christmas to you too, jerk. Might I suggest your holiday readings include Matthew 6:5-6?
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I knew that last statement would get a response...back from coffee break
In the context when the Constitution was written in its simplified form, without having to elaborate on philosophical extensions of global inclusion, that the intent of freedom of religion implied that no man would impose ones beliefs upon another man that would alter ones identity or infer ones identity were deficient or inferior, that in this case the symbol represented is a common thread to all man and represents all man. By suppressing this or any symbol of belief we suppress the communion of man and that which was written to protect us now condemns us to ignorance. The words of your forefathers were powerful and years ahead of their time, and I don't believe are fully appreciated presently. There is still a lot of restructuring ahead, corporatism still rules where men should be, and the imbalance causes tremendous anxiety, fear, and a lack of identity. Deep down the people know its wrong but are powerless due to rules and regulations that govern without wisdom.
When I speak of Family, I mean just that, the basis of our society, the foundation of life, this is what I mean when I say they missed the point. Their answer was beautifully poetic, chaos, confusion, pomp and circumstance. and not the simple symbolic, Mother, Father, and child; a common thread we all share.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Embrey on
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I concur with CM.
This is what happens when the federal government and special interest groups run the country.
Dispaly of anything religous in this country is subject to scrutiny by one person or one group who is offended. However, they are not the majority, yet we give in to them every time. Why should the state of South Carolina acknowkedge anything coming from a Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation?
Why should we have philosophical discussions about it on this website.
And Vic from Australia, you don't have a say in what goes on in this country as you have denounced your citizenship. Another word for expat (ex-patriot) is turn-coat! That's this Marine's opinion which I spent 30 years of my life to defend,you yobbo.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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Sham was a man named Sam.
Sam led a band.
The band was Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs.
They were a two hit wonder... "Wooly Bully" and "Little Red Riding Hood"
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So... using your reasoning.. my brother in law, originally from Canada is a turncoat because he became an American citizen.
A good family friend, who happens to be a Colonel in the USAF will be a turncoat because he is thinking of staying and living in Germany after he retires.. his aunt is a nun with the Sisters of Charity and has lived in Japan for the last 30 years.. is she a turncoat, too?
In a previous post CM mentioned the Constitution... from his post , note the bold
"In the context when the Constitution was written in its simplified form, without having to elaborate on philosophical extensions of global inclusion, that the intent of freedom of religion implied that no man would impose ones beliefs upon another man that would alter ones identity or infer ones identity were deficient or inferior, that in this case the symbol represented is a common thread to all man and represents all man."
Putting the creche on public property and not allowing any other religious symbol does just that. I have already gotten "hate e-mails" from some of the "holier than thou" types on firefighter nation because of my thoughts on these topics...
If you want to "save me and our Brothers and Sisters" ... wear your PPE, mask up and get your arse inside on the hoseline and put the damn fire out!
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Sham is what they just voted on and passed in the U.S. Senate.
Sham is calling those bobbleheads "leaders".
All of those people in prison for bribery must be thinking that their trial was a sham.
Shamma jamma ding dong.
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I have already gotten "hate e-mails" from some of the "holier than thou" types on firefighter nation because of my thoughts on these topics...
Gonzo: Those who hide behind their computers and ill-concieved thoughts are not holier than thou.
They are lowlier than thou.
This thread has taken a nasty turn.
It's too bad that civilized people can't simply respect someone else's view, be grateful that they can choose to celebrate their religion or not, knowing that someone else can't force them to believe otherwise.
When we should be spending time contemplating 2009 and looking ahead at 2010 and the other many issues that are confronting the FIRE SERVICE, we are creating a divide between members here over what were philosophical issues that have now become personal.
To some of you I will say; learn to "agree to disagree". It will mask your ignorance or in this case, intolerance.
I am done with this thread until after Christmas.
With any luck, it will be locked.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Art, at least seven state Attorney Generals have started investigations into the Senate bribery-for-vote issues on the basis of potential un-Constitutionality. At least one other state Attorney General (Tennessee) has been asked to open a similar investigation. Prior to Nebraska Sen. Nelson's vote bought with the bill permenantly exempting Nebraska from having to pay their fair share of Medicare (read "Everyone else pays your state's Medicare bills and Nebraska's, too) Nebraska Governeor Heineman sent a letter to Sen. Nelson telling him that the bribed vote was a bad idea and that Nebraska needs "a fair deal, not a special deal".
Apparently, the Constitution doesn't allow for legislation that forces states to pay for other state's budgets. Apparently, bribery may still be illegal, except in Congress.
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Jack, you open the door with "war" then complain that I brought other "war" discussion into the conversation??? Then you wonder why I called you on it???
The "nonsense" was you bringing war into the discussion in the first place.
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Permalink Reply by Jim Brunelle Jr. on
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Thats pathetic.
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