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Ten Minutes in the Street: On-scene, with Engine 21, Second Alarm…
Ten Minutes in the Street: On-scene, with Engine 21, Second Alarm….
A full alarm assignment has been dispatched to a reported fire in a townhouse, with possible trapped occupants. It’s a weekday morning and a holiday. Numerous calls are coming in while you’re enroute as the first-due engine (Engine Co. 21). You can hear on the radio that Engine Co. 13 has arrived on-scene at a commercial fire, across town and has smoke showing. (HERE).
You’re pulling into the neighborhood and you’ve got smoke showing and as you pull up to the parking lot entrance, it’s evident you have a working fire in a townhouse occupancy. You can see numerous people frantically waving at you as the engine pulls to a stop at the top of the road to drop the line and pick up a hydrant (Boxed arrow).
Here’s what you have so far….
• Townhouse Occupancy. The occupancy is the Second from the end unit. There are a total of eight (8) attached townhouses.
• The structure is wood frame Type V construction built in 2001. You know for a fact that the complex was built with engineered structural systems, wood I-beam floor support system and conventional gable truss roof.
• The townhouse units are all two bedroom units that are, located on the number two floor. The units have three levels that include a basement.
• There are cars that are parked directly in front of the building on the Alpha side.
• You can tell that emotions are high with the civilians, as the engine pulls up to the curb on the Alpha side… there’s a confirmed report of a trapped person on the second floor….
• You can see visible fire lapping up over the roof line coming from the Charlie side.
• You’re the first arriving unit, the truck company is right behind you; you have a four staffed engine as does the truck company. Mutual aid units are enroute on the initial alarm. A Battalion Chief is coming, but is not on scene at this time.
• As you get ready to key the mic, you can hear Engine 13 at the other fire transmitting a working fire in a commercial occupancy….looks like it’s going to be a busy day…
• You’re requesting a second alarm….As the first-due officer, with fire showing, a report of a trapped occupant and known features of the building and civilians yelling at you to get in there and rescue the person….what are you going to do? Provide a narrative of the issues, challenges, concerns, needs, strategy, tactics, risks, urgency, etc….
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Jeff,
I don't see any fire walls - by definition, those are masonry, and extend all the way through the roof line including the A and C soffits. The offset construction here doesn't have masonry walls that fit that description.
Fire conditions - I think they are worse than what you're seeing. The C-side view shows the fire autovented and autoexposing the soffits. The window to the left of the fire is showing some darker smoke, indicating a lot of heat and possible pending flashover. The C soffit is showing smoke from the attached B exposure, indicating extension to the cockloft.
There are also at least three and possibly four rooms on Division 2 that must be searched - the three windows showing smoke and possibly a bathroom with no exterior windows. I'm writing off the flashed over room - obviously anyone there is dead.
I think we're already behind the curve on a cockloft fire here. I think the tank water isn't going to get it done.
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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LOL!!! That may not be a good thing truckee!!!
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I don't see fire walls in this one. Fire walls are typically masonry construction that extends completely through the roof and extends at least a couple of feet laterally out the A and C (or B/D) walls.
The offsets here don't do that.
I also see smoke showing from the soffits on the C side of the B exposure. That tells me that we have a cockloft fire, not just a room and contents.
The fire apartment has at least four rooms upstairs, and probably at least 5. There are probably 3 or 4 bedrooms and 1 or 2 baths, some of which do not communicate to the outside, and which may also be involved.
The increasing black smoke from the second window on the C side tells me that this room is on the way to flashover, and might get there before we get the line stretched to that room.
I you hit this one quickly and get it under control with the first alarm, good for you, but I thing the outcome is a lot more doubtful that your scenario estimates.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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You guys always beat me to this and I am always wondering how the hell to respond after reading such awesome, professional reports that cover everything already...lol
From what I read in the narrative, Chris said the first engine was dropping line at the fire and doing a reverse lay to the hydrant at the entrance to the parking lot, so water shouldnt be a problem, unless this hydrant flops on us!
Engine crew will hit the fire hard, searching on the way. Sometimes the best way to save a life is to remove the threat.
Ladder crews will perform VES and search for victim, than vent the structure further.
Second engine will stretch an exposure line and check for extension to the neighboring town houses. Third engine stretches second line to fire building.
Second truck controls utilities than is RIT, Rescue assists with the search than slavage if possible.
I agree with Ben here too, have the resources coming in EARLY...with the crosstown fire the home team will be stretched thin so the Mutual Aid needs to be called for early on in the game to assure they get there as soon as possible. Id rather have the help and not need it than need it and not have it...lol
These posts are an excellent resource for all of us to stay on top of our game, and everyone usually responds very professionally. Thanks for always sharing your combined knowledge with us all.
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I agree. These posts do keep us on our "A" game. I love it and I'm actually learning in the process.
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Permalink Reply by Chief Dino on
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I'll second that. I learn a lot from the "ten minute" series
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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Well Ben, I think you are wrong. Again.
...is what I would say if I was a stubborn jackass. However, in closer inspection, which may indeed speak of a poor size-up, I have found fire extending to the cockloft area, possibly at least, but probably. Now I am NOT anadvocate of working off tank water, and ALWAYS an advocate of securing a supply. However, my tactical objectives were for the first-due company, an engine/quint...whatever with a staffing of four, to perform a VES and ATTEMPT to confine the fire on the interior during the VES operation, which would be done as quickly as possible, of course. Little more is possible until the balance of a first alarm assignment arrives, or at LEASE another company. And so we may well have a fire extended in the cockloft, in which case the tactics for addressing it, the strategies are easily defined. I HAVE seen off-set fire walls as depicted, although this may only consist of the required local code of possibly double rock, or whatever.
Of course anyone in the room depicted IS deceased. But with the fire self-vented, and the possibility of interior doors being closed, there IS a chance for anyone in the front room(s). Actually this fire is something that has been experienced through the years several times over, and is really nothing new. Except of course with lightweiight construction.
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Permalink Reply by larry jenkins on
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We carry 4" supply so I would layout from the hydrant and secure my own water from the hydrant. I would take the right side of the driveway into the court leaving room for the ladder company. I would take a 360 lap of the structure go get a veiw off all sides. With known victims call a 2nd alarm and my engine crew would advance a line to the 2nd floor to extinguish the fire on the 2nd floor. Truck crew would search for the victim asking the people outside their last known location. If the fire floor was too hot then I might consider VES but since the fire has vented this should not be a problem. The 1st place to search would be the 2nd floor room in the rear adjacent to the fire, the smoke showing indicates that this room will light off next. Then search the rest of the 2nd floor and then the lower floors. Truck driver would throw ground ladder to all windows on the fire townhouse.Once the rescue was made I would have the truck coordinate horizontal ventilation with the engine company. Rescues would be turned over to EMS. The next engine would advance a line to the 2nd floor, pull ceiling and put out fire in the attic using fog into the attic for steam production. I would have the rescue company or next truck do a complete 2nd search of all floors. 3rd engine would do RIT duties. 4th engine could pull back-up line if needed and protect staiwell. Hopfully by then the fire is out and start checking for extension. By code there should be a firewall between all addresses but still would have someone check both exposures.
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Permalink Reply by Reap on
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1st Alarm Box, All Hands with S/C of an additional 1/1.
First Due Engine lay in but not charge the hydrant. Stretch 13/4 hand line to the second floor to search off the hose, venting for life along the way. Driver can prep for supply.
Truck splits crews, 2 interior search catching up to the engine so they can focus on fire. 2 OV and utilities.
Second Engine, takes the hydrant, stretches a second line to get to the cockloft
Second Truck splits roof and hooks interior ceiling
Rescue is RIT
Chief has command
Second Chief has safety
Special called engine and truck split and check exposures for extension
...just a note in my opinion. For what appears to be a "bread and butter" dwelling with reports of a person trapped, 3 alarms (at least in my area) is a huge assignment. given the fact that there is another large scale event going on, I dont necessarily want to deplete the area just so my ego is stroked more than the other guy. ya we have a probable vic but its not worth a brothers life across town because they dont have the staffing in time to do a necessary job because i have 9 engines backed 1 mile down the road. Lets not over-kill. once a task is complete we can always reassign a company. And thats my 2 cents.
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I am gonna do this one how it would be were I work 5 engines 2 trucks 2 chiefs and a medic
First in engine would lead off with a 3 inch line and take a 1 1/3 thru the front door
2nd engine would cover the plug and take a back up line into the fire building
3rd engine would be the RIT
4th engine will find a plug and take a line to the rear and go into the delta exposure
5th engine will cover the 4th engines plug and take a line to the rear check the bravo exposure
1st truck takes the front ladders officer and the 2 stepmen make a search driver to the roof
2nd truck takes the rear ladders and goes to work
chief take the front 2nd chief takes the rear
medic stages
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Chances are that this building is very lightweight construction. If the fire is in the cockloft, we have zero-to-20 minutes before collapse, depending upon the type of construction, the builder's quality control, how much fire is impinging upon or spreading high levels of heat to the gussets, and how fast the wood is vaporizing from behind the gusset teeth.
I'd potentially VES this one, too, but I'd have a lot of help coming regardless of whether or not the VES was successful. From my original response..."1st Truck - I wouldn't split the crew initially - I'd ladder Side A lateral to the fire and conduct VES. If that didn't locate the victim, I'd move the crew with two ground ladders to Side C and conduct VES there."
I've been to quite a few of these, and those cut-up cocklofts are very manpower-intensive to extinguish and overhaul even if you catch the fire at a flashed over room-and-contents.
I'm all about trying to nail this one quickly - but you can't count on it in lightweight construction, no matter how good you are.
Also, sheet rock doesn't make a fire wall, even if double-hung. There's a big difference between sheet rock that doesn't penetrate the wall sheathing and the roofing and a masonry wall that does.
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I'm good enough to put it out!!! Sorry had to throw that one in there. Actually I would have to pass off comand to someone else so I could go in and play too.
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