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Police rushing into the fire...glory hounds, ultimate freelancers, or what?
We all know what cops and firefighters have in common....both want to be firefighters. But at what point is it too much?
First of all, this is not to bash cops or the jobs they do, and many cops have had some great saves prior to the FD arriving. In my city, the cops somehow get dispatched to calls prior to us getting the calls, there is some stupid delay in dispatch, but that aside yes, PD do go into buildings and since they are out and about can get on scene sooner. About a month ago there was a fire where two PD officer did make some good saves and did risk their life and had a positive outcome.....Problem is I believe the coverage on these officers has turned others into glory hounds.
Here is what happened yesterday. Fire tones go off for a structure fire and a report of people still inside. This was a house in our downtown area and very close run for 2 stations. As I was pulling out of the station a cop car goes flying past the intersection...well above 60 mph in a 35 zone (discussion for another day). We made our response and maybe a few minutes from toned out to on scene. The first in pump and battalion chief arrived seconds before we did. The first in pump went in, encountered high heat in the hallway, we set up positive pressure attack. Fire was extinguished quickly and as visibilty increased the crew found a person in the bed...obvious DOA. From a fire standpoint goes, it was a room and contents, confined to the room of orgin...great stop and this was the shortest on scene time we ever had for a fatal fire.
Problem is, 2 police officers went rushing in and had to get treated for smoke inhalation. While I can see their efforts if they are on scene for awhile but we literally were pulling up on the scene when they went in. They rushed in maybe 30 seconds before we were on scene...meanwhile our 5" LDH was run over because the street wasn't closed down. (charged LDH BTW)
See the thing is, we don't rush into a domestic disturbance, altercations, weapons calls, stabbings, shootings etc until the scene was secured. In this case the cops rush in and no gun, taser, vest, cuffs or baton is going to protect you from smoke, heat and flames, this scene was not safe for them to go in, but 2 officers rushed in literally seconds before FD arrived on scene. Problem is one day we will be pulling a cop out of a fire because they just rushed in.
So at what point do you say enough is enough? We have brought this issue up before and was addressed, but since a few good saves, there seems to be more undue risk from the PD. So I know many have similar types of experiences, would you address this stuff or just let it go?Is it worth it?
First of all, this is not to bash cops or the jobs they do, and many cops have had some great saves prior to the FD arriving. In my city, the cops somehow get dispatched to calls prior to us getting the calls, there is some stupid delay in dispatch, but that aside yes, PD do go into buildings and since they are out and about can get on scene sooner. About a month ago there was a fire where two PD officer did make some good saves and did risk their life and had a positive outcome.....Problem is I believe the coverage on these officers has turned others into glory hounds.
Here is what happened yesterday. Fire tones go off for a structure fire and a report of people still inside. This was a house in our downtown area and very close run for 2 stations. As I was pulling out of the station a cop car goes flying past the intersection...well above 60 mph in a 35 zone (discussion for another day). We made our response and maybe a few minutes from toned out to on scene. The first in pump and battalion chief arrived seconds before we did. The first in pump went in, encountered high heat in the hallway, we set up positive pressure attack. Fire was extinguished quickly and as visibilty increased the crew found a person in the bed...obvious DOA. From a fire standpoint goes, it was a room and contents, confined to the room of orgin...great stop and this was the shortest on scene time we ever had for a fatal fire.
Problem is, 2 police officers went rushing in and had to get treated for smoke inhalation. While I can see their efforts if they are on scene for awhile but we literally were pulling up on the scene when they went in. They rushed in maybe 30 seconds before we were on scene...meanwhile our 5" LDH was run over because the street wasn't closed down. (charged LDH BTW)
See the thing is, we don't rush into a domestic disturbance, altercations, weapons calls, stabbings, shootings etc until the scene was secured. In this case the cops rush in and no gun, taser, vest, cuffs or baton is going to protect you from smoke, heat and flames, this scene was not safe for them to go in, but 2 officers rushed in literally seconds before FD arrived on scene. Problem is one day we will be pulling a cop out of a fire because they just rushed in.
So at what point do you say enough is enough? We have brought this issue up before and was addressed, but since a few good saves, there seems to be more undue risk from the PD. So I know many have similar types of experiences, would you address this stuff or just let it go?Is it worth it?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Stirring the pot has some to do with it and part is tongue in cheek and part is busting chops. Is every cop a FF wannabe, no, we know that isn't the case. Problem is when you get cases like here where people are rushing in despite scene safety and FD rolling on scene, so yes part of this is stirring the pot.
As for "poaching calls", no it isn't the case, but many PD here do self dispatch themselves, we get a ton of them turning out for a fire, and it can take awhile if we request them for EMS. We don't rush into a scene that we could get injured or killed and we wait for PD to do their job, they should be staging for ours. And as I stated before, this isn't about a cop on scene for awhile and trying to do something good, or in their minds what they think, the issue here is we could see these guys get out of their car and rush in. When the FD is rolling on scene, they should NOT risk themselves. There is nothing they are going to do in that 20 to 30 seconds that is worth their life or injury, poor risk assessment, yes, but could be about the glory too.
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Permalink Reply by luis campos on
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that should b the standard , we call it cop-o-meter lmao !
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our problem is not so much cops going into burning buildings , it has happen the cop got ''deputy of the year'',
we had cops call ''fire out'' and try to cancel the response , we usually disregard and keep going to make sure .
our BIG , HUGE , OVERSIZED problem is cops responding to fires and trying to beat us there , dont take me wrong we have some that stop traffic and make it safer for us to get to the scene but we got more that are willing to cut us off and speed by us , it is extremely unsafe .
personally wat i hate the most is too many cops at a fire scene , MVA or any other kind of emergency
im sure you all have seen the pic of the car parked next to the hydrant and the ldh going through it ...well we have done it twice to cop cars , also for some reason cops think that they are certified to be OIC of those same scenes I HATE IT!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Julie Williams on
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So,you can't find your way out of your burning home.Police arrive before your rural fire dept. a police officer hears you screaming,can pull you to safety.Oh,wait Travis wanted that to be against the law.So,he lets you burn to death.When firefighters are on the scene,or seconds away,let them do their job.Unfortunately,especially in rural areas,there isn't always such a timely response.I would take whatever help I could get if I were in the home.The butcher,the baker,the candlestick maker,hell even a cop.We don't rush in to murder scenes,very true,but which one of you wouldn't try to stop a murder,a rape or domestic abuse if you were there before the police?
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Thank you.I hope he didn't think this through and that's what he came up with.You will work,if you're fortunate enough,with law enforcement very closely while on the F.D.I wouldn't be making enemies.You're going to need all the help you can get,Travis.
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Same stuff happens here and did the other day....cop was beyond our station and flew past the station as we were pulling out to go to the same call. There were a couple cops that did block traffic....problem was the traffic blocked was the third due engine.
A couple years ago, we had another fatal fire and it went to a second alarm, the next due in rigs couldn't get to the scene because the PD had the street blocked...oh and no cop to be found to move the squad car. That issue was addressed quickly.
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So I went in to work OT today and for the morning meeting (we have a teleconference system) it did not take long for someone to ask the chief about this last incident with the PD. The chief and A/C were also aware of the situation and will be addressing the issue. The nice thing was that the chief stated he agreed with our concerns and the PD needs to be addressed again. We'll see if things change. Last time the PD was addressed we had to fight tooth and nail to get the last chief to finally address the issue, so this is nice change that mgmt is already looking to address the PD.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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Let's give the cops the benefit of the doubt and say that the ones who rush into fires are sincerely trying to help. OK, with that said...a cop running into a fire without proper training and equipment is really just a well dressed civilian.
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Trying to help...sure, just as we are trying to help on a shooting, stabbing, altercation, or domestic disturbance call, but we also don't go rushing into these scenes until deemed safe. Trying to help is fine, but there is no reason for any cop to be rushing to a fire when the FD is pulling on scene as they are going in.
I agree with well dressed civilian...who may one day find that polyester uniform shirt melted to themselves.
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author states quite clearly that the PD get dispatched before the FD. The key word is dispatched.
PD does tend to get calls before us, however the calls also pop up on all the MDT's and officers are self dispatching in many cases. Secondly, there is absolutely NO reason an officer should be screaming past the FD rigs who are responding to the exact same call. Yes, that happened.
Look at the argumetn OBJECTIVELY- if you were first on scene and had the opportunity to possibly save someone, I bet any amount $ that millions of others out there a multitude of uniforms would do the same- that's what we do
Objectively, sometimes the most important person you can save is yourself. I have been on altercations, stabbings, domestics, etc before the PD and staged for the cops to make the scene safe. I was not about to risk my life and rush into a situation I am not familar with nor received training in.
Objectively, the cops first on scene were running in to smoke and high heat despite the fact that the FD was rolling up on scene. The cops were getting out of their cars and rushing in as the FD was pulling up a block away. I have pulled someone out when we were the first rig on scene...it took longer than the 20 to 30 seconds the cops had here and at least I had the proper PPE on for that too.
OBJECTIVELY, it also comes down to situational awareness and being first on scene MINUTES befre the first responding FD rigs is one thing...rushing in as the FD is pulling up is another.
If you don't like my wording or bust on the PD in my opening, oh well. Yes, I stirred the pot with my comments, that was the intention. We recently had a fire where the cops did get on scene first and did rescue some people which received local appreciation and fanfare...and then you get this fire of a report of people inside and PD racing by responding FD rigs and rushing in as the FD is pulling up...is that really being objective and situational awareness or glory hounding?
Tell me honestly, if you were walking down the street and saw smoke coming from a home and the FD is rolling up on scene a block or so away...you heard the sirens before getting to the house....you look and see the trucks coming....tell me are YOU going to rush into that house just before the FD gets there? Because that is what happened here. You don't like my terminology so what...go back and read the comments where I have stood up for the PD.
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Permalink Reply by Manuel Ortega on
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Well, after reading all these accounts it seems pretty obvious that for everyones safety (FF's, PD, EMS and civilians) police officers should go through a short "Fire Behavior" class. This way they can understand the danger to themselves and others when they influence the fire scene. Remember when you all started in this, your first classes on fire, I am sure a lot of what is now second nature and obvious to you, was not back then. Without education they will never understand the gravity of their actions, with education they can become better assets for the overall incident because they know what is going on. I know this would be difficult to put forth (sure they go through plenty of classes already) but it is something to think about. Maybe local departments can educate their local PD with regularly scheduled training sessions, just like we do with EMS services on a regular basis.
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Finally someone making sense. We are all in the same team and we should work and educate everyone for the good of the community. If they understood fire, they would respect it and a lot of this would not be happening, educate.
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