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"If all fire departments are short handed why doesnt the government produce funds to pay more and keep firefighters?"
just a thought i know that starting pay here is 663 every two weeks
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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They do have some programs in place like SAFER and AFG etc...they may not be much and not all depts qualify but they are there. The reason you see the bailouts of the automakers, banks, lenders, etc is because that ideal was to stimulate the economy and get jobs and consumer spending going again. There is no stimulating the economy when you give money for FD staffing and there is no way such depts will pay back the funds....as is supposed to happen with these bailouts.
What needs to really be done is to examine our welfare system and create hardline rules to cut off the freeloaders.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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John,
You should visit FFN's sister site, JEMS Connect. There are some folks there who think we are not spending enough to take care of everyone, and that "everyone is responsible" to fund healthcare for all...for starters.
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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on
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ill give an amen to that
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Permalink Reply by DUST on
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My county's commissioners voted down a 1-cent property tax increase my chief asked for in June that would have gone to hire more firefighters...I live in an average house in a good neighborhood and it would have been less than a $20 increase in my property taxes. But who wants to be the guy that increased property taxes when it's election time...
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ya i agree but i wish they would change it
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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Good question. I am glad someone else finally stepped up with some concern over this issue. For those who say it is a local issue, or that the Feds don't belong involved in this issue, I personally feel you are wrong. Look at how much money is available for law enforcement. We call it the national crime problem, don't we? From the federal to state level, there are so many grants and financial assistence programs to help combat every type of crime problem there is. Yet even though the majority of the nation's fire service provides free labor, (volunteers), even THEY have to beg at the roadside with a boot, or hold bingo games to even exist.
And here we have our own people who insist it isn't the fed's job. Again, on the local, state level. Look at what happens with DUI fines that are the result of vehicle collisions. Most of the monies that get kicked back go rith back to law enforcement. Yet the resources required at crashes that result in injury and extrication that involve fire and EMS are usually just as extensive, and perhaps more costly when we figure in the apparatus, fuels, equipment, training, and even staffing costs. Yet how much of that pie does the fire service get?
It is a local, state, AND federal problem. The biggest problem is that we lie down for this and accept it, happy to be (in our own minds at least) the good 'ol boys who will come and do whatever, and never question anything. Remember 9/11? Remember the whole "never forget" thing? Who DID forget? The government. Local, state, and FEDERAL, that's who forgot! Wasn't it such a sought-after priveledge for politicians of that time to pose with firefighters, or some type of firefighter/EMS reference, at campaign time to show how they are in support of the first responders? NOW what?
Here's another problem...again: US! As long as the local department has those new top-of-the-line apparatus, and million-dollar stations, those who enjoy that luxury have no concept of what many of our larger, distressed city departments are going through on a daily basis. Closed companies, under staffed companies, apparatus that is in disrepair, and fires that keep coming. Detroit, Philly, New York...remeber never forget? Blomburg forgot didn't he?. Look athe smaller, yet no less busy departments...Gary Ind, Camden NJ...and it goes on and on. Those who don't see any problem at their end have no clue what the rest of the Brothers and Sisters on the job have to deal with.
Perhaps some, or even much of it is becouse of failed local government. Yet with industry leaving in droves, and U.S. government rewarding companies that move out of Country, what can we expect? How about all those who are not citizens, and those who are on subsistence programs who have made a life out of taking from the government, don't they bleed our services on a daily basis? We can give billions to other countries...we can give it all to Tsunami victims (of course I beleive in helping, don't get me wrong), we can make bail out private business deemed "too big to fail", who still have CEO's being paid multi-million dollar salaries while the REAL worker is on unemployment, yet we cannot help ou Nations heart and soul, our big cities? Public safety is THE main priority of ANY government, be it local, state, or federal.
How about are over-paid stars of entertainment/ Be it those pampered, over paid professional atheletes, or ESPECIALLY those so-called movie "stars" and other talk show hosts who have made their many millions and even billions who choose to invest in those 3rd world country problems? Where DID they earn their money from? OK, I digress. Perhpas I am just ranting now. But the bottom line is, if the federal government is not responsible to help salvage our nations financial downfall of our cities, and assist them with funds to help maintain the level of emergency (FIRE/EMS) protection, then they certainly don't belong helping foreign countries first. The fire service is a step child to law enforcement for one reason: apathetic firefighters. We have OUR membership, station palace, and new million dollar tower ladder, so why SHOULD we care about those in Detroit (for example) who will do more work in a week then some of us will in our entire careers? Hey, everything is fine in our town!
Law enforcement IS a priority. It should be AS much a priority as fire safety.
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bravo i couldnt have said it better and yes i agree completely
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Permalink Reply by 81fyrman on
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I think most people are missing the big picture . . . public service (fire ems police ect) are neccessare Evils. they need us even though they dont want to pay for us. they pay the basic they can get away with. that is why you see cops and fire fighters getting layed off. stations getting closed ect.
I even see it in my full-time position as a Security Officer. the hospital I work for has looked repeatedly at outsoursing our jobs to save money. So far it has been in their best interest to keep the jobs in house.
it all comes down to the all mighty dollar. The govt is bailing out businesses they see as NECESSARY for the survival of the ecomony. Public service does nothing for the greater good of the ecomony. it doesnt generate cash flow to stimulate the tax base.
as far as the general public, I dont think they want services cut anymore than you or I do. They just are generally clueless as to what to do to stop the cuts. all they see is their taxes going up and services going down. what needs to be done is cuts from the top. the elected officials need to be the ones to start taking the cuts. Garenteed that the pres. governor, mayer,twp supervisor will cut funding to a department before they will cut their overpaid saleries.
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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Grants are not the answer for staffing.
The risk you have with a grant is (for example) XYZ Department hires 4 staff members with the grant money. What happens when that grant moeny runs out or the grant program is scrapped. Who is left to fund those positions? The towns people? More chicken raffles?
Grants should NEVER be used for wages/staffing.
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I have issues with the answers stating fire is a "local problem". I think those who answer in this way miss the big picture. Surely we could blame local government to an extent. If any positions should be volunteer, it should be our elected officials. They claim to be so concerned with local issues, so serve for free, with no benefits. I guess nobody would run huh?
It is NOT a local problem. That doesn't equate to the view on law enforcement does it? Crime is considered a National problem, and we all know how disproportionate the funding is for law enforcement compared to the fire service.
It's a disgrace that the Fed Government cannot help bail-out our distressed cities and assist in funding the emergency services. That is governments priority, right? Safety and well being of our citizens? We spend billions to aid Country's that are in need from tsunamis and other natural disasters, yet cities such as Detroit are still burning down, and stations close, companies are out of service...and we continue to provide aid for other Nations. And for that matter, the same goes for our mega-wealthy entertainers who make their fortune from this Nation's worshipping fans, only to have them invest millions in some remote area of Africa...or whatever.
But that's rambling, I realize that. Considering most of our Nations fire protection is provided by free labor (volunteers), I would say the fire service IS a bragain already. Yet the volunteers STILL have to work bingo and sell pancakes just to exists to provide home-town protection. Something wrong here, huh? Ever see the Police operate a coin drop?
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The risk you have with a grant is (for example) XYZ Department hires 4 staff members with the grant money. What happens when that grant moeny runs out or the grant program is scrapped. Who is left to fund those positions? The towns people? More chicken raffles?
I'll disagree with grants shouldn't be used for staffing, but as such with these grants there is a match portion the community also has to make. The rules for the new SAFER grants were the grant would fully fund for the first year or two and then decreases after that. Yes, when the money runs out it is up to the municipality to fund the positions, but such grants are also used to provide funding for communities to maintain services. These grants give some time for the municipality to also focus on priorities vs nice to haves and gives a chance for the community to recover finacially.
As it is, you see communities laying off because they don't have the funds. Well that is a disservice to the taxpayer who depends upon the service and now their services are reduced, but they are still paying the same as before. Some places hands are tied by the state where they can not raise taxes enough to be able to fund such positions, these grants help to address those issues. The whole purpose of these grants is to help maintain jobs and services and on the very rare occasion are places using these to add more staffing.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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In 2008, fire departments responded to 403,000 home fires in the United States, which claimed the lives of 2,755 people (not including firefighters) and injured another 13,560, not including firefighters (Karter 2009).
(http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Fire-Prevention/fires-...)
In the US in 2008 there were (to show just a few):
89,000 rapes
16,272 murders
834,885 aggravated assaults
(http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm)
I'm pretty sure the cops are not making up their need for manpower and hiring. And criminals do have a tendency to travel, from one town to the next, or to the next state, or across country, so perhaps there is a need for more federal funding.
Given the relatively low risk of fire and easy remedies to reduce or eliminate fire, many people overlook the risk of fire when weighed against the risk of crime. People prefer to play the percentage and where fire is concerned the percentages are in their favor.
No fire department should have to have 'coin drops' (whatever that is) or any other fund raiser, they should be fully supported by their community. So if a community is served by a volunteer department they should be paying the tab for all equipment, apparatus, station(s), training and anything else the department needs to function as a professional fire department.
If the community can't or won't support their VFD then the department needs to re-consider their mission statement, consolidate or regionalize. Some funding should be available through the county or state and Federal grants already are available. The problem with grant money is typically it doesn't show up unannounced, it has to be applied for.
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