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Yet Another Firefighter Charged With Arson
I am amazed at the level of stupidity with some in the fire service.
Firefighters who set fires break a sacred trust between their fire department and the communities they serve.
Granted; this type of behavior isn't something that you can predict without the help of professionals trained to identify it, but there might be something in their background that would come up with a criminal background check, a check of references or psychological testing.
This article comes courtesy of the home of the U of I; the college with clout.
Please read; http://www.wqad.com/news/sns-ap-il--firefighterarrest,0,849868.story
Firefighters who set fires break a sacred trust between their fire department and the communities they serve.
Granted; this type of behavior isn't something that you can predict without the help of professionals trained to identify it, but there might be something in their background that would come up with a criminal background check, a check of references or psychological testing.
This article comes courtesy of the home of the U of I; the college with clout.
Please read; http://www.wqad.com/news/sns-ap-il--firefighterarrest,0,849868.story
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Max L on
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Sadly at times we are our own worst foe. All because of finaical problems what will her money situation be after this mess is all done and she spends however much time in jail. I think if you are a ff and you set an arson fire you should have to face the maxium setence plus!!! we know the risk not only to ourselves, brothers and sisters. but we have the public we pass enroute to the call. the police who will show up as well. the wrecker driver all these people that now have had the chance for their life to be changed if not whiped out.
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Permalink Reply by Travis Bowers on
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This still amazes me to this day to think that someone could be so stupid as to do something like this. Worst off a firefighter. What would they have done if one of there fellow members would have gotten hurt or killed while at that call, they would have alot of guilt for the rest of there life. People like this never should deserve the oppurtunity to serve there community, due to the fact that they make such dumb choices. Some people are fire fanatics, but do it on your own time and place, not a abandoned house or barn, or land. I hope they push the maximum sentence on her. I know this wasnt a house fire or barn fire, but still it's dangerous, and everytime engines and tankers have to roll down the road at 65-75 mph, it's putting more danger on the road. People need to start THINKING!!!
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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Something to think about.
Are these incidents becoming more prevalent, or has it just become more widely known because of the web?
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Something to think about.
Are these incidents becoming more prevalent, or has it just become more widely known because of the web?
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Yes and yes.
With all of the technological advances, news is almost real time.
And some of the public that had resentment for our profession BEFORE 9/11 are still trying to knock the pedestals out from under us.
But it's not like we aren't giving them a reason with each firefighter arrest.
DUIs, drug possession, child pornography on computers, arson, grand larceny, domestic violence; reckless homicide with a vehicle and on and on.
Being a firefighter just ratchets up public opinion faster and hotter.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Good point, the information superhighway has put such stories available in the click of a button. Hard to say if this is an increasing trend or if just increasing access to info.
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John:
Right here at the Nation, look at how many threads start with "ok, we have this guy on our department..."
Then, you go to the member's profile where they have been proud enough to declare the name and address of their fire department and it's pretty easy to see why the "dirty little secrets" are no longer secrets.
But, on the other hand, I think we have a duty to expose the bad ones, get them out of the service and begin repairing the damage.
It's a never ending process in some cases.
TCSS.
Art
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First, this is the same story in the General Discussion forums under STUPID people bashing firefighters.
Secondly, given the number of firefighters serving, career, volly, DOD etc, those idiots like this woman are few and far between.
Granted; this type of behavior isn't something that you can predict without the help of professionals trained to identify it, but there might be something in their background that would come up with a criminal background check, a check of references or psychological testing.
It does depend upon the resources of a dept to be able to pay for an extensive background. On one hand we are saying we have no money for firefighters and service and budgets need trimming and so forth, but then turn around and say more money should be spent of such tests.
I have annoymosity towards such psych tests and how much stock one should put in for a pre-employment testing. Many psych tests are nothing more than questions reworded and asked again...it shows CONSISTENCY, but in no way indicates someone would commit arson as a FF or even snap and so forth. Too much emphasis seems to be placed on the "psych" portion of the test giving a false sense that there would be a diagnosis etc. Thing is, how can ANY stranger really judgehow someone will be in a high stress type of job as this? Even people diagnosed with mental illnessgo through severl steps before a diagnosis is made, but somehow we think a psych test on a written exam is going to show someone would snap?...I disagree.
People do change and people are placed in circumstances where they do things they know better of and so forth. Many people who would pass a psych test or background with flying colors. No psych test is going to show this would be the case in the future. If it was, then why do most examples tend to be from people who have been ON the job for sometime and not the newer hires?
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The post you are referring to was posted because of the comments from readers of that news story.
A group of us have been tracking ff arsons since 1998. Many stories can be found at another popular website.
I don't think a firefighter has to "snap" to commit a crime, especially arson. I think that there are a number of reasons for it and none are justified, of course.
Just like departments cannot take a cookie cutter approach to tactics, I don't think that firefighters who commit arson have the very same traits.
But, if it's behavioral, in many cases, the behavior is predictable. We can talk about cost or the ineffectiveness of poorly designed tests, but the fact remains that we would like to know of the criminal behavior sooner than later.
Or we can stand in front of the cameras and say "we had no idea" and then listen to the angry crowd tell why we should have known.
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Problem with these forums is that it is easy to take a post as a direct response to an individual. The part about this is the same story as in the other forums was to indicate that there were not seperate incidents of a FF committing arson.
As for predicting behavior and so forth, I do agree with you Art, however I don not agree with the psych tests out there today. As for the angry crowd, the problem is they see "psych" test and somehow think that it is an extensive exam by a shrink that every public safety official goes through...Not the case, but I have yet to see a chief or someone actually state what these "psych" tests consist of. Most of these tests today are just a bunch of like worded questions and indicate consistency. In some places you take a few more similar tests, maybe talk briefly with a shrink, but in the end, you are not getting some grand diagnosis nor indicator of what kind of person the FF will be. These tests are also conducted by people who really have NO clue what the job entails, but yet can say whether the person should or shouldn't be hired.
Yes, some behavior is predictable, but if a person has a clean record prior to getting hired these tests will not give a good indication of how the person will be in the future.I just stand by my position that these psych tests are a sham or very least not a good predictor of future events and really the general perception of the public is when a "psych" test is mentioned, it is common to be think it is same the type of tests given to criminal suspects pleading "insanity" etc...and reality is they are not. Most questions consist of stuff like "Ilike to analyze data" and then 50 questions later "I prefer to not look at data". You get consistency, but overall many of such questions are open to interpretation and most psych tests do not get too involved...sorry I don't believe in them and view them as a waste of taxpayer dollars.
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Permalink Reply by SFPD9101 on
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You hit the nail on the head with this one CR. How many times do you read an article in the paper or hear on the news about the Bakery Manager arrested for DUI or some similar scenario? As firefighters we're held to a higher standard and the public and media are ever so quick to point out when a firefighter does something wrong or illegal whether it's related to his or her profession or not.
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I disagree. For years firefighters have been hired before such tests and as pointed out earlier, are there more FF's today committing arson as opposed to the past, or is it that the information is much faster and more widespread today?
Yes, the test do show consistency and also can be construed as honesty, but that doesn't mean they are effective. On the contrary many of the questions are open to intrpretation. In one test I took, the question pertained to being late at either work/school in the past 6 months. The answers available were, Never, Once in the past month, two or more times in the past 3 months, etc. Problem is there could be justifiable factors for being late, such as responding to an early morning call, but the problem is none of the question fit. If I said never, wait that is a lie, because I was late due to a call. However, it was more than a month ago and I wasn't late numerous times. So really you can't answer the question truthfully in cases, nor able to justify an answer.
Now as stated such tests can determine consisteny and to a point honesty, but it isn't going to show what kind of firefighter the person would be. They don't point out behavioral issues (at least not the written version tests on many written tests today) The don't show that a person is going to commit arson, they don't show a FF won't break the law, they don't indicate and potential for a person to "snap". Again most tests are conducted and reviewed by people who have no clue of what such a job pertains.
I accept the fact that such tests are becoming a stple in the public service hurdle, they may some place, such as determining honesty/consistency, so yes they may serve some function, but no where near an accurate indicator of what kinfd of FF someone will be, nor what they would do in the future. I would also like to see them termed as something other than a "psych" test which gives the general public a false idea of such a background screening. This isn't like a thorough exam process like diagnosing a criminal suspect pleading reason of insanity. Most tests are a 25 to 40 minute portion of the written test, or at best an hour or two in a testing center, either way neither can effectively determine what kind of FF the person would make, nor predict how they will react to future events or stressors.
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