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What would you do?
Ok I have a question that is pretty good. Here it goes. If a crew was inside of a working fire and IC,Safety Officer orders the air horn normaly three long blasts to evacuate the building and the crew of three inside does not here the air horn and no one has radio contact with the crew how can you get there attention to inform them to get out of the building? Just remember there is no wrong answer. I just want to find out what others would do in this situation.
Thanks and Be Safe,
Robbie Cox
Thanks and Be Safe,
Robbie Cox
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Nope, I agree, if a crew doesn't respond, we can't assume they just didn't hear the evac order and if RIT is sent in, you have to be ready in case something were to happen to them. Worcester and Phoenix we have studied pretty extensively. My response about a missing RIT was not the scenario, but what would you do if a crew wasn't responding. Absolutely you have backups in place any time RIT gets activated, you call a MAYDAY and send in RIT. All other what ifs, could make for some very good training and table talk. I was just responding about this scenario given here.
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Permalink Reply by Ron King (Fire Chief) on
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Robbie, the crew on the inside always has contact to the outside. If not this would not be done. the building can be replaced your people cannot! Think it all out before you act.
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Permalink Reply by Anita King on
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These people should not be in a working fire without reliable radio contact. The IC should have constant radio contact with the crew inside or find out why. In fact, when the crew realizes that they aren't getting out, they should back out on their own. First rule of firefighting, look out for number one, be safe. It shouldn't be allowed to go to the point of evacuation with a crew inside that you can't talk to. SAFTEY is key here. In Virginia, even at the smokehouse during training, if a crew does not respond to radio traffic, everyone is pulled out and training stops until the problem is rectified. In fact, all communications are tested before a training evoultion can begin.
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Issue is that not all depts do have radios or radios for each member going in. Actually here in WI, last year in Milwaukee, our largest city, a FF and Capt fell through the floor. The capt had the radio and the FF called the MAYDAY from the capt's radio, because he didn't have one. That FF pulled his capt out and was actually the recipient of the Firehouse FF of the year or hero recognition.
Point is this is a big city and not every member has a radio, but yet things get done on the fireground. It is easy to say "safety first" and coulda woulda shoulda, but the reality of a situation doesn't follow the same rules all the time. So in the end, if plan "A" fails, be ready for plan "B". It shouldn't get to such a point, but be ready if it does.
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Permalink Reply by Robbie Cox on
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I agree with what you are saying, but the radios do have flaws and do not work all the time. I wish our communication system was much better, but just remember electronics are made by man and man is not perfect. Thanks for your reply & thoughts.
Stay Safe,
Robbie Cox
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No, we do not have contact with the outside all the time, if radio failure occurs then we have just lost contact with the team inside. This was my point about what would you do if this would ever happen. I have heard alot of great ideas. Thanks for the reply.
Stay Safe,
Robbie Cox
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Permalink Reply by Todd on
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If your inside crew loses radio contact they should be disciplined enough to self-evacuate. Afterall, it's their lives on the line.
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Permalink Reply by Douglas Crowell, Jr. on
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I agree with a lot of you, don't use your PASS unless you are in danger yourself, or with the people that are in danger.
Accountability is also key, but that only tells you what the crew was doing at the last PAR check (Up to 10 minutes between checks in our dept.), so that information may not be as usefull as you would like.
I also agree that RIT should be activeted as soon as a problem is detected. The best place to start looking is where you last knew they were, which in my case could have been up to 10 minutes ago! Plus like everyone else, manpower is an issue. (this in no exuse, but still a problem and another discussion.)
As for the radio issue, all our interior crews have them, but if a failure occurs the interior crew would not know that until they try to communicate. (This is because the IC cannot call them on the radio and tell them their radio is not working):)
All in all each department needs to have SOGs in place so that all members know what to expect in the case of equipment failures when an evacuation is needed. Whether it be sounding the horn (3 blast Intervals) until the evacuation is complete, RIT teams are sent in, or repeating mayday transmissions over the radio until the building is empty. We may have different ways of getting the job done, just as long as we all go home at the end of day.
Stay Safe!!
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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Since they had better be in there with a charged line and you should have a second line staffed and ready to support them you would simply send in the second crew down that same 1st line to locate them. you would then have a third staffed crew and line to support the 1 and 2nd lines already in there ready to assist if needed.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Chief, the scenario didn't mention the initial crew having a charged line. That crew could have been assigned to search above the fire, ventilate upper floors, search laterally to the fire, or locate the fire in a big box for the 1st engine so that engine didn't take their hoseline to the wrong place.
There are numerous departments that routinely have truck and rescue companies search without a hoseline.
Even if the missing crew was an engine, engine company firefighters can and do get seperated from the hoselines and become disoriented, especially in big box (Wide Rise) fires.
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Scarrey! I wouldnt have a crew in a house (box) without a charged hose line and a staffed back up line as well.
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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
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I would deploy the rit team
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