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Has an incident ever affected anyone that you thought about for an extended period of time.
The most recent incicent that affected me for an extended period of time was a double fatal on I-81 that 2 Marines died. Even after a station debriefing, this incident still comes to mind.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tiffanie Pettis on
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i think any one in the fire service has bad memories or lasting memories from atleast one call they have been on ... i have some thoughts from calls that i havn't been on and some that i was... just recently we had a double fatal i knew the first guy that died in the accident he was only about 7 years older than me but i knew him through other friends and such ... i also knwe the family ion the second car the mother died but the little boy is doing ok now-i did a fire prevention day at our Elementary school and i knew the little boy too. ----i remember stories that my dad would tell about things he couldn't get out of his mind some of the pieces stuck in my mind, not as something creepy or discusting or like that but just of what he must have felt at that time and what he must have thought. the thing that always gets me is anything with the kids. i can handle all the blood and gore just fine- its just one of those things that is part of the job and you just cant think about it or let it get to you.... maybe by my dad telling of the things he has been through and stories from some of the other guys in my mind since i was so young has prepared my mind a bit for the things i go through now.
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Permalink Reply by Bob Kinne on
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Art,
I have always held the belief that our job too often requires us to do things we never thought we could do and to see things that no sane person should have to see.
In February 1974, a fire destroyed a three story apartment building. We spent 3 days recovering all the bodies ... 2 women, 1 man and 7 children.
Back then we didn't have debriefings or group counceling. You dealt with it in your own head. Like you pointed out, you either controlled your emotions so that you could do your job, or you let it eat you up and spit you out.
Yes ... stay strong.
Bob
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Debriefing will not make the thoughts, images, smells or sounds go away... the process is designed to explain to the affected victim what his or her "triggers" might be for future downward sprials. Identification is the key, and then understand a coping mechanism that works to relieve the stressor, is the therapy part.
I do not agree with the concept of your last one will pass when you go to your next one.... I can tell you in detail about multiple bad ones that keep coming to mind. Most of which have different triggers.
Putting it back where it belongs and "filing it away" "controlling your emotions" is not resolving the situation for some, that is old school therapy. Back then, you were either man enough to "handle it" or you hit the bottle, if that didn't work you went onto retracting from family, friends and worse committing suicide. If that system worked so well then why is NOBODY using it today?
Paul if the thoughts continue to bother you, then it means there are still some underlying issues in your mindset of what happened or occurred, and it is time to seek further intervention and speak with someone.
Fire service personnel all beat themselves up internally with what-if, and that sometimes combined with misunderstanding the triggers and a coping mechanism can be causing the thoughts to surface.
The other thing needed to be said is not all CISD or CISM debriefings are the same. I unfortunately have sat through many of them and some were great and others were run simply horrible The horrible ones did absolutely nothing for the affected group and many needed further assistance.
BTW: I still relive a fatal fire from 1998 with a childs name, date, time, what I was doing, what he was wearing, and ironically remember the anniversary date as if it was my childs birthday.
Take Care Stay Safe,
FETC
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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Put everything back where it belongs and you will be ready for the next one.
Art, it concerns me that someone with so much experience and knowledge can beleive for a minute that it's as simple as that.
CISD is a huge issue and things at times simply can't be "put back where it belongs".
Emergency Services the world over need to make some drastic changes around the whole accapetance of CISD and the handling of it. It can't be swept under the mat. It is OK to suffer from it, and help must be made available with no strings attached.
Or maybe I'm reading into your response too deeply....
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Permalink Reply by Ray Steybe on
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i have few that have stayed with me and way heavy on my mind at times,but what has kept me going has been that one or two calls where a real differance is seen it.We all deal with the death and horrors we see day to day in our tours of duty in different ways but if you want a long career you will have to find a method that will help you maitain your own sanity.
The one that haunts me most is a single car mva where i had to call a 18 year old girl and call tramua alerts on her two friends the wreck happened down the street from my old house and i had to drive home past the site every day for 2 years and i still have to drive by there when we visit my father in laws house
hopefully you find what works for you best and have a long life in the servuce
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that was a very bad wreck and it still eats at me sometimes too that was just a fubared night
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Permalink Reply by Mike Ward on
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As others pointed up, there are different triggers for past events. For me:
1) Moonless winter morning (4 am) where the cold quickly takes your heat away, where I almost allowed a civilian die on a "nothing showing" alarm bell call at an industrial building. http://www.firegeezer.com/2007/12/04/winter-bells/
2) Two off-duty responses. (a) Motorcyclist that was run over by a car. Car still on guy. Only trauma-induced priaprism I observed. Turned out to be a law enforcement officer with firefighter relatives. (b) Going from a sleep to cpr (with a hangover) on neighbor when I was 19 and thought we could save everyone.
3) A half-dozen locations where I worked fatal crashes.
4) Sparkling bright blue cloudless fall morning that reminds me of September 11th.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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There is nothing wrong with "remembering".
Just don't get into "re-living" them.
Like many of the others, I can remember names, places, days and dates.
But, I don't rehash the outcomes, because frankly, there is no point to it.
Good, mental health is every bit as important as physical health.
If you spend your strength struggling with that which you can't control, you will "retire" well before your time.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by SHAWN FORINGER on
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I was a police officer .I just got off duty and the pager went off for a ATV accident.While enroute Dispatched asked if I was enroute as a police officer I replied Yes.On scene was a young man that I talked to just about 10 minutes before the accident.He was apart of our fire dept.. It still bothers me to this day and It's been 4 yrs. Just hang in there brother .I travel I-81 a lot in my semi
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Permalink Reply by mean15 on
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I've been on several fatal fires involving children, and to be honest, I think I dealt with them OK. The one that I lay in bed at night and think about was a 23 year old who died in a house fire several years ago. We VES'd the bedroom and pulled her out. When we got her out , she left out a gasp and died right there on the porch roof. EMS was unable to save her. I believe we were literally seconds away from saving her. Times like that make you wonder what you could have done better. We waited for 5 guys before we responded. Should we have left with 3?? Were we too slow getting to the roof?? Too slow searching?? All my other fatals were long dead before we arrived, but this one we were so damn close.
And Paul - one of your Marines went to school with my son, and lived directly across the street from my firehouse. That was a sad day for us, also.
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on
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I feel lucky personally because for whatever reason calls really don't bother me or stick with me. I guess it changes from person to person. Someone on here said they were the same way and wondered sometimes if they were coldhearted. I don't think it means you're coldhearted, everyones just different in how they react to things. The only thing that ever bothers me about a call is if I feel I could have performed better. If I think I performed well, and the outcome is poor anyway, that doesn't bother me.
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Permalink Reply by Tim Wood on
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Most of us have seem things we wish to forget . If it doesnt bother you in someway then you may have a problem. I dont let things bother me too much but i never forget. The smmallest things bring back memories. Talk it out the other guys went through the same thing. Dont let pride get in the way if you need help.
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