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CDL's for driving larger engines? *update 10-19-08*
Our new engine is a sterling cab, wieghs well over 26000 pounds I'm not sure of the excact wieght and has air brakes. At my day job I have to have CDLs to drive an f-750 that wieghs 28000 pounds and has air brakes. Tn law states any vehicle with air brakes or excedes the wieght limit of 26000 pounds you have to have a class b cdl to drive it. But there is an excemption for emergency vehicles that just doesnt make sense to me. does anyone elses dept. require cdls or anyone think they should. I think you should have to have cdls and have evoc tought by a state instructor before you can drive. Just my opinion.
10-19-08 I contacted The Tennessee DMV and they told me that a non cdl driver could drive an engine to an emergency under the excemtion law but would be breaking the law if they drove back to the station to get fuel or was just out driving. The dmv also if a non cdl driver was involved in an accident driving a large truck they would be driving a commercial vehicle without a license and could lose their license or have to do jail time. They also told me all that was needed was a class be cdl in Tn thats only 2 written test and a short on road driving test.
10-19-08 I contacted The Tennessee DMV and they told me that a non cdl driver could drive an engine to an emergency under the excemtion law but would be breaking the law if they drove back to the station to get fuel or was just out driving. The dmv also if a non cdl driver was involved in an accident driving a large truck they would be driving a commercial vehicle without a license and could lose their license or have to do jail time. They also told me all that was needed was a class be cdl in Tn thats only 2 written test and a short on road driving test.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by PFC Harmon on
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After training and practice then taking a state test an EMT-IV or paramedic gets a state license to start IVs. The problem is that a lot of volunteer department have no drivers training or it is taught in house (my department is not perfect). No a CDL will not make you a better driver automatically, no a CDL has nothing to do with running lights and sirens or learning about the pump or where to park the engine, this is where EVOC and other training come into effect. While learning and testing for a CDL a firefighter without any experience will learn about air brakes, stopping distance and several safety issue concerning larger vehicles. Another thing is a CDL is not only for 18 wheelers they are also for dump trucks, milk trucks and school buses. If you have been driving for that long great, but you know as well as I do that some departments don't have any drivers training and are turning inexperienced people loose in large vehicles.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Claus on
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You are correct Sir, a CDL is not just for 18-wheelers. Not a personal attack here, but if you think back to why the CDL was developed, you will recall that it was designed as a one license system. Meaning all CDL holders would be in one system, preventing them from being able to obtain multiple licenses and spreading out their moving violations. Not exactly an issue concerning drivers of various apparatus.
A big problem developed with the CDL program when control and implementation was handed to the state. We now have states adding additional rules.
I understand your concerns and I do agree with you that there needs to be standards and better training, I just don't think the CDL is the answer.
If I may ask a question--Why the big push for apparatus drivers to hold a CDL, when there are untrained drivers operating BIG motorhomes and 5th wheel campers pulling bass boats all across America, all summer long?
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Permalink Reply by anne potter on
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I will give you that and I never said training was bad . My poin t was that not every dept has the money to spend on getting CDL's.. I have taken EVOC along with 20 other classes... I know that in a small way you are probally right about the smaller towns... There has to be more money out there to help and there isn't.. classes get longer money is tight for families so you get dad on a call or you get dad to quit because now the state adds on a ton of more requirments... I guess there is no right or wrong we all want the same thing, and the good thing about a forum is that we all must remember no one is more righter than the other we are suppose to be Brothers... Including myself ..So lets hope the things get better. In the mean time lets remember not all firedepts have the fancy equip or the ability to have what other depts have,but all our hearts are in the same place.
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No one is refusing all people are saying is that if you read into it is the money and what it costs to do this.......... We all train...
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Stop how old you really .. You read into your point my friend and you refuse to read the point that says we do train and we do take EVOC classes,but you know what we don't have the money to get everyone one in our dept. a CDL now if your dept is willing to donate the money I will go and get mine today.... And to the only one who stands in Category A .. I'm sorry that most depts don't live on the gravy train.. Plus you could never be LT up here to young..Sorry I'm thinking at you age LT hummmmmm.. Being so verbal over some of us who have done it alot longer than you could think of.
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Anne, my age or rank has nothing to do with this discussion just like your grammar. The main point I am trying to get across is that the more training and certifications we have the better and safer firefighters we will be. Unlike you who answers the question top issues facing responders with quote "TO MUCH TRAINING", how exactly can you have to much training? On your page you gripe about having EMT refresher courses, have you ever thought that new procedures and practices come out?
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Permalink Reply by gary_lytle on
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This is copied from Part 383 From the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Admin.
< 383.1- 383.5 >
Subpart A—General
§383.3 Applicability.
(a) The rules in this part apply to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) in interstate, foreign, or intrastate commerce, to all employers of such persons, and to all States.
(b) The exceptions contained in §390.3(f) of this subchapter do not apply to this part. The employers and drivers identified in §390.3(f) must comply with the requirements of this part, unless otherwise provided in this section.
(c) Exception for certain military drivers. Each State must exempt from the requirements of this part individuals who operate CMVs for military purposes. This exception is applicable to active duty military personnel; members of the military reserves; member of the national guard on active duty, including personnel on full-time national guard duty, personnel on part-time national guard training, and national guard military technicians (civilians who are required to wear military uniforms); and active duty U.S. Coast Guard personnel. This exception is not applicable to U.S. Reserve technicians.
(d) Exception for farmers, firefighters, emergency response vehicle drivers; and drivers removing snow and ice. A State may, at its discretion, exempt individuals identified in paragraphs (d)(1), (d)(2), and (d)(3) of this section from the requirements of this part. The use of this waiver is limited to the driver’s home State unless there is a reciprocity agreement with adjoining States.
(d)(1) Operators of a farm vehicle which is:
(d)(1)(i) Controlled and operated by a farmer, including operation by employees or family members;
(d)(1)(ii) Used to transport either agricultural products, farm machinery, farm supplies, or both to or from a farm;
(d)(1)(iii) Not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and
(d)(1)(iv) Used within 241 kilometers (150 miles) of the farmer’s farm.
(d)(2) Firefighters and other persons who operate CMVs which are necessary to the preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions, are equipped with audible and visual signals and are not subject to normal traffic regulation. These vehicles include fire trucks, hook and ladder trucks, foam or water transport trucks, police SWAT team vehicles, ambulances, or other vehicles that are used in response to emergencies.
(d)(3)(i) A driver, employed by an eligible unit of local government, operating a commercial motor vehicle within the boundaries of that unit for the purpose of removing snow or ice from a roadway by plowing, sanding, or salting, if
(d)(3)(i)(A) The properly licensed employee who ordinarily operates a commercial motor vehicle for these purposes is unable to operate the vehicle; or
(d)(3)(i)(B) The employing governmental entity determines that a snow or ice emergency exists that requires additional assistance.
(d)(3)(ii) This exemption shall not preempt State laws and regulations concerning the safe operation of commercial motor vehicles.
However it is all about classroom training and burning diesel on the road that will make us safer. The short fast drives are not enough.
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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WOW!! This topic just won’t die, pun intended.
I have a question;
The biggest bitch here seems to be cost, ok how much you talking?? Here in Illinois it cost me $30 extra….hmmm that’s a lot of money.
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Permalink Reply by Noah Sheckler on
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I agree with everything you just said......
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I think my licenses cost around 50 bucks but that's for a class A. For a class B with a tanker endorsement that consist of two written test and a road driving test the cost would be around 30 to 40 dollars.
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Unless a fire dept has a semi, a class B is just fine. I can only relate to Illinois but the DOT told us we only need a class B non-CDL and that is the same price as a regular license, but there is always an argument over air brakes.
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