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Is Volunteer Experience Equal to Career Experience?
Just a question to get some discussion going. The region that I live in has many volunteers that are also career firefighters/officers. The question always arises; Should a firefighter's experience as a volunteer be taken into account for promotion, hiring or otherwise with a career department?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tom on
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well as far as promotions, and hiring goes, you can't compare them. hold a test for promotions, most career departments in NJ do. Prolly all of them test.
The experience you get depends on how busy your department is? I know one Vol department runs 700 calls per year. 2 stations, 4 engines, 1 tower, 1 rescue, a brush truck, and about 70 members including the Jrs. Thats my Dads company, they are busy.
I know my friend is a paid firefighter on a department that has 4 stations, 2 trucks, 4 engines, about 80 firefighters they average about 800-900 calls a year, so split them between all the shifts, not that busy at all. They do alot of the fire prevention inspections during the day shift too.
It all depends on the department, i still think a independent test is the best way to promote, an hire.
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Permalink Reply by drew on
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I have read the entire thread and frankly don't appreciate the implication that I am too lazy too read a long post. I still contend that throughout this entire thread the underlying argument is paid vs. volunteer. Go back read the first page of threads and count up the number of references to paid vs. volunteer. My point that I tried to make is that all of the arguments being made have been made many, many, many times over. Why beat this horse to death when we have so many other things as a fire service we should be concerned about. But then again, I guess maybe I should just not argue with those that are smarter than I.
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Permalink Reply by Station10Capt106 on
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I think that FETC & damnthing stated it perfectly. I have served on our vol. dept for over 15 years and consider myself well disiplined and professional and I strive to attend every available training opportunity I can, but as a volunteer I am still limited. I have to work a full time job to put a roof over my head and pay the bills, plus my wife & kids enjoy spending time with me too. I have never been on a paid dept but have talked to quite a few who are.
There is no comparision (for the most part - although there are always a few exceptions) to the level of training and experience. Paid departments do train more - the members have the time dedicated to that training. They do (usually) have more experience. Paid departments normally run higher run volumes. Our Vol. Dept does about 250 runs a year.
I am very proud to be a vol. firefighter and think that our dept is very professional and well trained (for a vol. dept). I am also respectful to the paid departments and acknowledge their level of training and experience.
One is not necessarily better than the other, each individual person is driven by different desires, motivation and dedication. There are slackers on both sides of the fence. But I would expect that a paid department to be better trained and more experienced. I would still expect the same level of professionalism and dedication from both Vol's and Paid's though.
As to the original questions: I do think that all experience should be taken into account for promotions, hiring or otherwise. The level of importance or weight of each experience will vary though. If I am interviewing someone for my businesses and see that they started working at McDonald's as a burger flipper as a teenager and worked their way up to management and stayed there for 8-10 years that experience means something to me. It may not have anything to do with the job I'm hiring them for but it shows commitement, dedication and desire for advancement.
Just my 2 cents
John
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Permalink Reply by Allen Wahlstrom on
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DT...damn, I could not have said that better myself!
Some of the best experience and training, happened for me in that Volunteer department I started with.
And your point about coasters is so dead on brother.
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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on
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Im not sayin....IM JUST SAYIN~!!!!!
Cmon you guys....again NOT a career v. Vollie topic. Why do you insist on making it such.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Hoevelmann on
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I can honestly say that this post was not intended to be a volunteer vs. career issue. It was strictly to be about importance of experience and how the two paths cross in many firefighters lives. It is an interesting topic because it is obvious that depending on where you are in the country, your training requirements are different. I just wanted to add this since I started this post, most have stayed on course, but others have read into this a bit too much (in regards to the issue of vol. vs. career) and I just wanted to clarify this issue.
I think we can safely say that this is a hot topic and everyone has their own opinions. There is no wrong or right answers here, just great debate and information being passed along. There does seem to be a great deal of opinions about the amount of training between the two, and no doubt there can be. But it leads me my next question......
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Permalink Reply by John Cupps on
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Unless you live in the big city where your running EMS/Fire 10 times a day or more, what is the difference? I'm volunteer, I have a normal job just like most "Career" guy's have second jobs, I'm involved in daily political dealings as well as hands on & face to face incounters. Although there are some training differences in general, if your in certain postions, I see no difference between the too and therefore I would treat them equal. I think maybe each situation would be different.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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As my next BLOG will point out, we are of the same brother/sisterhood.
What we do, how we train for it, why we do it and where we do it may be different than how it's done somewhere else.
We are NOT the same. I HATE that cookie cutter approach.
It's funny; but when the P vs. V debate comes up, we are all the same. When there is a firefighter LODD, we are all the same.
But, if a firefighter is charged with a CRIME, all of a sudden, we are NOT the same.
We need to get it straight.
Can't have it both ways.
Jason: you didn't want it to be a career/volunteer debate? Funny title for a thread, then!
I know; you did it as a "hook".
I'm impressed that WC has left it open.
Oh; and if anyone wants to jump out ahead of me on the brother/sisterhood topic, go right ahead. It won't even be close to what I have to say on the subject. Trust me.
Good job.
Art
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Permalink Reply by SD on
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I see it this way, our volunteers have to go through the same training for certification as the paid firefighters do. My hat goes off to every volunterr because they are putting their life on the line because the feel a duty to do so on their own time, not because it's their "job".
Fire doesn't know the difference as to whether or not your paid or a volunteer, it does it's thing and tries to destroy everything and everyone in it's path. I think people need to crawl out of their boxes and realize that the days of the "volunteer" firefighter from "green acres" has long since past.
God be with us all whether we are paid or not.
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Permalink Reply by Padre Pete on
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Jason, You really stepped in it this time. Chances of satifying anyone adequatly seem to be slim to none. My take is this. Given that required training is a standard, the 6-8 people who do all the interior firefighting for a very busy volunteer dept. might be getting the same experience as the guys on the shift that fights 1/2 or 1/3 of the fires of a not very busy career dept. If the busyness factor is varied, the experience is varied. It is the professionalism learned and praticed by all of us, not the pay scale, by which we will be judged. Keep The Faith
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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Jack, cause most of us are mature enough to keep our Big Guns put away for the important things. Well done Jack!
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