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Where did the fire service go???
I know, I know, it's still here. But...
I was one of those hard chargers when i came on the job at 20 years old.
Thought the old ways were outdated, and needed changes to make "our" fire service safer and more efficient.
Well...I was wrong in more ways then I was right. We have done away with too many of the things that made the fire service, the fire service.
The other night my Captain and I were sitting in the empty day room discussing where the fire service has gone dreadfully wrong.
Gone are the days of firefighters sitting around the table playing cards and sharing stories.
Some of those stories, ok many of those stories were embellished a bit, but many more were full of nuggets a rookie could use when things got bad and their experience didn't cover that type of emergency.
When it got bad, something old Jake said about a bad one years ago would pop into your head and that sign staring you dead in the face would become a SIGN, not a death warrant.
Those evenings were full of nuggets.
Those evenings were full of training disguised as a game of Spades.
But not today...
We used to go out on weekends and do live fire evolutions.
You old Jakes remember what I am talking about. Burning the house that was making way for a new strip mall, or that dilapidated 2 story in a rough side of town, too expensive to revive, but with great bones so collapse was several good ones away.
But not today...
Sure in some parts of the country, live fire burns are still the norm, but not many and not for long.
Training meant getting out on your apparatus and going over tools, cleaning them and putting them away.
As much as we all hated doing this, it meant we knew where every tool on the truck/engine was located and that it was in good working order.
But not today...
Now it is the drivers job to check the truck or engine, the firefighters have too many other vehicles and or medical bags to check out to walk the apparatus with the driver.
Today we depend on power point training that gives us yet another piece of paper saying we have completed the training.
But did anyone get a frakkin thing out of said training???
Mostly NO! I'm as guilty as most, but if it is something I don't know inside out will actually read the entire training. But, I still forget 99% of it by evening. And most just click through it to the end and print a certificate.
Then, go to their respective rooms and watch TV or talk on the phone...
We eat 1, maybe 2 meals a week together, and then it is the old guys cooking who have conversations during prep and cooking...
There are no stories to be told, because the young guys would rather be playing HALO in their room with 1 or 2 of the guys.
We don't burn real fires anymore because the EPA and NIOSH, oh yeah and let us not forget OSHA, think it is: 1. harming the environment 2. a liability 3. Too dangerous! (#3 is my favorite)
We can't train the way we work. Isn't that the point!
There is no knowledge exchange in the house.
Idiots in charge at the government level somehow think doing a power point training makes up for actual training.
And not the classes your department spends thousands on to get you certified, ACTUAL FRAKKIN training. Those are wonderful, but a month after the trainers have gone we are back to the same old thing.
Burn towers and Simulators are well and good, but they do not make up for REAL live fire evolutions.
And why do we not burn anymore, besides the agencies listed above???
Guys got hurt and or killed doing live fire evolutions way more then should ever have happened.
But...that is not a good enough reason to throw the baby out with the bath water!
How many of our Brothers and Sisters are still here today because they recognized a situation happening that screamed, "GET OUT NOW"?
They sure as heck didn't learn that situation in a natural gas flames simulator, or from hay bales in a concrete block building with instant egress options.
Now the real point of my diatribe.
How many of our Brothers and Sisters do we mourn a year who should still be here!?!
How many of them could have learned to read a fire in a controlled environment?
stay with me here. I know training fires are not controlled per se, but they are great learning environments that should have many hours of preparation and planning built into them
How many of our brothers and sisters could have learned over a conversation with the old guys at dinner, that all those stars adorning the sides and front of late 18th and early 19th century merch's should be skulls and cross bones instead. Those building will get you killed in a hurry. But they weren't.
Why? Because we are more concerned with having individual space and privacy, than a great training environment taking place when no one knows it is happening.
We need to get back to basics brothers and sisters...
The slippery slope of individualism is killing us...literally!
Young guys: Make time to sit around and play cards or dominoes or aggravation with the old guys a couple nights a month.
Old Guys: Quit sneering at the young guys and take one aside regularly and walk through the apparatus and share a nugget or two.
I was one of those hard chargers when i came on the job at 20 years old.
Thought the old ways were outdated, and needed changes to make "our" fire service safer and more efficient.
Well...I was wrong in more ways then I was right. We have done away with too many of the things that made the fire service, the fire service.
The other night my Captain and I were sitting in the empty day room discussing where the fire service has gone dreadfully wrong.
Gone are the days of firefighters sitting around the table playing cards and sharing stories.
Some of those stories, ok many of those stories were embellished a bit, but many more were full of nuggets a rookie could use when things got bad and their experience didn't cover that type of emergency.
When it got bad, something old Jake said about a bad one years ago would pop into your head and that sign staring you dead in the face would become a SIGN, not a death warrant.
Those evenings were full of nuggets.
Those evenings were full of training disguised as a game of Spades.
But not today...
We used to go out on weekends and do live fire evolutions.
You old Jakes remember what I am talking about. Burning the house that was making way for a new strip mall, or that dilapidated 2 story in a rough side of town, too expensive to revive, but with great bones so collapse was several good ones away.
But not today...
Sure in some parts of the country, live fire burns are still the norm, but not many and not for long.
Training meant getting out on your apparatus and going over tools, cleaning them and putting them away.
As much as we all hated doing this, it meant we knew where every tool on the truck/engine was located and that it was in good working order.
But not today...
Now it is the drivers job to check the truck or engine, the firefighters have too many other vehicles and or medical bags to check out to walk the apparatus with the driver.
Today we depend on power point training that gives us yet another piece of paper saying we have completed the training.
But did anyone get a frakkin thing out of said training???
Mostly NO! I'm as guilty as most, but if it is something I don't know inside out will actually read the entire training. But, I still forget 99% of it by evening. And most just click through it to the end and print a certificate.
Then, go to their respective rooms and watch TV or talk on the phone...
We eat 1, maybe 2 meals a week together, and then it is the old guys cooking who have conversations during prep and cooking...
There are no stories to be told, because the young guys would rather be playing HALO in their room with 1 or 2 of the guys.
We don't burn real fires anymore because the EPA and NIOSH, oh yeah and let us not forget OSHA, think it is: 1. harming the environment 2. a liability 3. Too dangerous! (#3 is my favorite)
We can't train the way we work. Isn't that the point!
There is no knowledge exchange in the house.
Idiots in charge at the government level somehow think doing a power point training makes up for actual training.
And not the classes your department spends thousands on to get you certified, ACTUAL FRAKKIN training. Those are wonderful, but a month after the trainers have gone we are back to the same old thing.
Burn towers and Simulators are well and good, but they do not make up for REAL live fire evolutions.
And why do we not burn anymore, besides the agencies listed above???
Guys got hurt and or killed doing live fire evolutions way more then should ever have happened.
But...that is not a good enough reason to throw the baby out with the bath water!
How many of our Brothers and Sisters are still here today because they recognized a situation happening that screamed, "GET OUT NOW"?
They sure as heck didn't learn that situation in a natural gas flames simulator, or from hay bales in a concrete block building with instant egress options.
Now the real point of my diatribe.
How many of our Brothers and Sisters do we mourn a year who should still be here!?!
How many of them could have learned to read a fire in a controlled environment?
stay with me here. I know training fires are not controlled per se, but they are great learning environments that should have many hours of preparation and planning built into them
How many of our brothers and sisters could have learned over a conversation with the old guys at dinner, that all those stars adorning the sides and front of late 18th and early 19th century merch's should be skulls and cross bones instead. Those building will get you killed in a hurry. But they weren't.
Why? Because we are more concerned with having individual space and privacy, than a great training environment taking place when no one knows it is happening.
We need to get back to basics brothers and sisters...
The slippery slope of individualism is killing us...literally!
Young guys: Make time to sit around and play cards or dominoes or aggravation with the old guys a couple nights a month.
Old Guys: Quit sneering at the young guys and take one aside regularly and walk through the apparatus and share a nugget or two.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Allen Wahlstrom on
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WOW and I mean WOW...you can come work in our Department any time!
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Permalink Reply by Chris Hayden on
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I weep for the future of my beloved fire service...
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Permalink Reply by Alan on
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I couldn't agree more with you Allen. I always tried to learn something when we did the live burns. You could actually see what the fire was actually doing and you learned to how to protect yourself and your fellow firefighters. I know that a lot of our old timers don't come around any more, but being the in the fire service 18 years, I try and pass on what I have learned to some of the newer members like I learned from the old timers around the station.
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Alan, all we can do is pass on our knowledge and keep learning.
I think some took this as I think we are going the wrong direction totally, and that was not the point.
I really feel like much of todays training is better then we got as rookies, but...
The big issue is the bs training and lack of real fire evolutions today. Even 20 years ago we ran on at least double the fire calls we do today. However we kill as many as we did then...seatbelts would help, right.
we need to find a way to get real world training reinstitiuted into our daily training, and drop the paper training so many of us see as pointless.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Koontz on
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AMEN BROTHERS!!!! I wish we could add "History" to the FF1 requirements. It would be nice to teach the guys coming in where we all came from. i think it might help a little bit. Honestly, I feel exactly the same. I've grew up in a vollie house. WHen one person had a birthday, the party was all the vollies and their familys. We had Christmas parties, and potlucks, and bbq's. There was about 8 of us around the same age growing up, and they called us the fire kids. Out of 8, you now have 3 marriages, all of which hit ten years or better this year. When I first started, I knew enough to learn from the older guys, and I was scared to mess up. I spent hours learning the tools, their locations, and conning every one at the station to teach me whatever they could. I got involved. Work details, parades, anything. Everytime I move stations, I do the exact same thing. And I'm the only one. Seems like most of the new people starting have no fear of messing up, have no interest in the history, and think nothing of the guys that have fought more fire than they'll ever see. I teach as much as I can, and most of my classes involve pointing these things out. Seems like the cadets I teach are always interested, but then they get out of an academy and it disappears. Seems to be a problem across the entire service with no boundaries. I think somewhere we all got lazy, and we need to take the reins back. Refuse to allow the "new guys" to sit down until they know the rigs inside and out. Make them cook dinner for the crew. Make dinner a requirement for the house. Conversation will naturally follow. During the day, while you're driving around, quiz each other. What my buddy Jason calls "burn a building down". Point out a building, throw out a scenario, and everyone takes turns putting it out. New, old, doesn't matter. Or give everyone a job and make them talk it through how they would accomplish it. If someone shows a lack of interest, make them do it again. Then, when that building actually DOES have an incident, and they realize they've already had this exact thing in their head, they'll realize what you were teaching them. May take a little bit, but I've seen it work. My new guys hated me, because I pounded things into them. Tools, apparatus capabilities, even history. but after about a year or so, they all came to the realization as to why I did it, and suddenly I wasn't such a bad guy. Most have gone on to do the same thing when they pull shifts elsewhere, or make their Lt's run them through scenarios, or training. We have down time, and since we're being paid, we need to get off our butts and do something. Earn the money we're making. And hell, I'm just a volunteer! I do all this on top of my normal job!
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Permalink Reply by John Ordazzo on
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I don't know about all your Dept's out there but all our rookies KNOW IT ALL fresh out of school I have 28 yrs between my Volunteer and paid service. When I was hired I had my FF III cert, EMT cert, and a host of other certs, when I walked in the door the first day on the job (my Brother was the LT on duty) I said hi to all the guys we had coffee , House work, lunch, tranning from that day foward if a senior FF said hey kid you know how to do this I would say no show me please. Today there's no respect I really miss the "old days"
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Permalink Reply by Zach on
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Wow. I just joined this site a little while back, and this is an awesome article.
I'm only 23, and have only been on the job fighting fires and doing EMS for about 5 years. I bounced around on a couple different departments from starting out in a volunteer position to a fulltime position where I'm at now. I feel fortunate that I have gotten to work on a volunteer department, a combo department, and my newest department, a 100& full time department.
I just finished up Paramedic school, and you guys are absolutely right. It disgusts me how many 18-20ish yr. old guys there are on departments out there that seriously....they know it all. Or at least think they do. I find that usually, it's the types from the suburbs that really have NO experience fighting fires, or even living in an area that sees a lot of firefighting for that matter.
They also get all bent out of shape when you poke a little fun at them, and can't take a joke. That gets old reeeaal quick.
They argue with the superior guys who have been on the job 15-20 yrs and quote the essentials book.
I am very fortunate in that I live very close to one of the busiest fire departments out there. And per firehouse in their coverage area, right now they are getting more fires than anyone else in the country. We live about an hour north of the city covered by the Detroit Fire Department, (who still lets you come in sometimes and do ride-a-longs). I have done many ride a longs and have taken many trips down around Detroit to try and get as much experience as I can with that busy department. These young guys though......they amaze me. They flat out refuse to ride with the DFD guys, because in their minds "Detroit isn't professional in their image and the way they do things. They are old fashioned in their ways and don't do things the way I learned how in the fire academy". I tell ya, it disgusts me. Some of the Detroit guys have some of the best experience of anyone and right now is a great time to be riding with them because Detroit is roasting like crazy. They might do things differently, and for good reason....IT WORKS BETTER! Funny concept, I know....but it makes sense.
I really look forward to chilling out in the day room with some of my senior guys late at night and have them explain any and everything to me that I want.
I look forward to helping the guys at the hall strip their old roofs from their houses and re-shingle their houses. I look forward to watching their bands play at the local bars, and going camping with those same guys and their families. I look forward to being on a department that has awesome morale.
I actually start at my new job Wednesday and am really stoked. It's with the department that covers the town I grew up in. They stay pretty busy with fires and run BLS & MFR level medical calls. There are quite a few older guys and women on with me that will be really good for advice.
I grew up in the fire service, and actually just got hired with the same department muh Daddy worked for and retired from. That's something I'm really proud of. It means a lot to me to keep the family name in the mix at that department. I'm nervous about screwing up, but I think I'll be alright.
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Permalink Reply by Bobby King on
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Im going to agree to 95% of this post.. The ONLY part that I do not agree with is saying power points are not effective training, Its a whole lot better to DO Some sort of training than do nothing at all, Im hoping that I did not misinterpret the original posting and if I did so I do humbly apologise, Its my personal belief that the WORST sin that any Firefighter / EMT / Any other first responder can commit is to do nothing at all.
While sometimes boring and aggrivating the power point training modules are an effective way to get at least a little bit of training in between calls for service.
I do agree that the Old jakes are nothing if not a plethora of information that young bucks can learn from. They are the pillars of the Fire service and deserve respect. On the other hand Nobody is too old to learn.. One of the biggest gripes I have is when some of the Old timers do not show up for training or sort of blow it off as " Ive been there done that and am still wearing the Tshirt" So even if it is just a traffic safety course or a live burn there is always something to be taken from the training,
Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. You would not dream about going into a structure fire with no tools. just think of training as one more tool
Sgt. Bobby J King
Firefighter-Rescue Tech/EMT/EMD
Haz-mat Tech
Madison County E-9-1-1
Madison County Vol. Fire / Rescue
ENG3INE RES1CUE
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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on
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Bobby...
just to answer for my part. Powerpoint training is GOOD training, and i actually enjoy presenting certain areas in that format. The point is that it will never replace hands on or the 'real deal'....Show me a real axe...not a powerpoint slide of one!
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Wow. This post has just reaffirmed everything that I grew up believing about the firehouse. I am a young buck at 19. I can honestly say that I am sure most of the guys in my department are sick and tired of me asking questions. I just want to learn by doing or seeing done, not from a computer screen that you stare blankly at and wonder when the instructor will say "drill". My point is that in the fire service, I want my station, wherever that might be, to be a brotherhood, with all that entails. I would love nothing more than to be sitting around in the day room, ragging on each other, and the second the tone drops, nothing else matters. Brotherhood. That is just my $0.02 TCSS
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Of course there is nothing that can beat hands on training. But if You had Your choice of having a power point training module.. or doing nothing maybe mowing city halls grass what would you rather do ?
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