Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lauren on March 26, 2009 at 6:04pm

negative.. what is it?

Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on March 26, 2009 at 7:05pm

This is the same thing that has been going around about the guy who committed suicide in his car and left a sign that said to beware to the responders. This is not something else new.

Permalink Reply by Lori on March 26, 2009 at 7:40pm

So this has been going on for a while?

Permalink Reply by Haven5 on March 26, 2009 at 8:00pm

I think FEMA sent out a warning about this about 2 weeks ago. It sounds like a couple of readily available chemicals are mixed and it creates an extremely toxic gas. By extremely toxic I mean one whiff, Goodbye! Someone in my department said the reaction releases chlorine gas. There is info out there. I think Firehouse magazine had something about this on their website.

Permalink Reply by Paul Acosta on March 26, 2009 at 8:13pm

It's mixing Bonide, which is an insecticide for fruit trees and hydrochloric acid. This will kill the person with a few minutes.

Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on March 26, 2009 at 8:40pm

Bonide is just one way to do it. There are several other very similar ways to do this. The key here is that they are using very readily available chemicals to commit suicide. Just be careful if you approach a body in a car.

Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on March 26, 2009 at 8:42pm

This is directly from my hazmat team.



Many of you have received numerous emails about a "new method of committing suicide" that puts public safety responders at risk. It talks about mixing a pesticide with muriatic acid and generating heat and a noxious, highly toxic flammable vapor.

I have investigated and found these incidents did take place as shown in the emails. But I want to assure you that the gas that is released is not a new secret chemical weapon.

When you mix a sulfur based product (Bonide the pesticide) with Muriatic acid (37% hydrogen chloride as masonry cleaner) what you get is hydrogen sulfide (sewer gas). The MSDS for Bonide clearly states not to mix with acids as Hydrogen Sulfide will be released.

It smells like rotten eggs (bad) and is very self alarming which will cause you move away. You may also be able to detect it if you have a hydrogen sulfide sensor in your 4 or 5 gas meter for confined space (because it was one of the gases you were warned about in confined spaces).

Hydrogen sulfide is an enzyme poison that causes chemical asphyxiation by inhibiting cellular respiration (very similar to cyanide poisoning). It is also very flammable.

If released in a vehicle (as described in the attached article from firefighterclosecalls.com) it could be easily ventilated from the car with PPV, reducing toxicity and flammability enough to affect a rescue.

If the liquid mixture of Bonide and Muriatic Acid is still present, it might warrant a hazmat response, as it could continue to produce toxic gas from the chemical reaction. Agitation of the mixture may increase gas production.

Ignition sources should be controlled (like the door lights and chimes when you open the car door) as it has a very wide flammable range 4-44%. It would generally not warrant large evacuations if isolated to a car which is outside. In an enclosed parking garage may warrant a little more precaution.

More than you will ever want to know about it can be found at:
http://webwiser.nlm.nih.gov/getSubstanceData.do?substanceID=339&...
on Wiser or in the Emergency Response Guidebook, NIOSH Pocket Guide or other reference sources.

If still alive, medical care for the patient would include 100% oxygen and administration of a Lilly or Taylor Cyanide Antidote Kit with Amyl Nitrite, Sodium Nitrite and Sodium Thiosulfate (most hospitals will have two of these kits).

Permalink Reply by Haven5 on March 27, 2009 at 11:39pm

Excellent info. Thanks for expanding our chemical knowledge. We always need to be looking out for one another!