Leather Helmet Shape

lets see the different shapes out there. Are you a out of the box guy, bronx bend, cowboy curl or maybe the reverse bronx. Lets see em boys.

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Permalink Reply by l1tilr on November 3, 2008 at 11:15pm

Don't think mine has much of a shape so I guess out of the box best describes my helmet. It didn't come in a box though, just kinda sat on the shelf collecting dust till I paid it off.

Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on December 2, 2008 at 11:51am

The Bronx bend ( rolling to shorten the rear brim) most likely came from the nessesity during the 70's that came from, wearing the early Scott 2.2 priorto them the Scott 1800 bottles were round bottomed steel bottles, to getthem up to 2200 psi they extended and squared off the bottom, which caused the brim to contact the bottle when crawling around, heating the leather had always been part of life so "helping" a warmed helmet to ease use seems natural.. That being said all leather helmets react to heating and cooling differantly from another as well as "other factors" such as being dropped ,equiptment such as Flashlights, etc..in fact garrity style lights in the combs of non approved helmets often caused a divit in that comb.. just remember Cowhide is a Natural substance and skin stretches, forms , shrinks in various ways... Never force the leather or You will crack it and degrade it , if not causing damage , degrading the helmet's useful natural lifespan... I've seen a lot of guys try to "make" the leather bend one way or another only to end up replacing the helmet

You can check out all 5 of my leathers either here in a couple of the other show your leather threads or on my home page pics

Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on December 4, 2008 at 10:10am

I dont know That I would suggest trying to make it happen since you may take away the leathers ability to be strong in that area if you force the issue, you'll break/crack the actual leather degrading the life span of the helmet

Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on December 12, 2008 at 10:40am

I wear a Sam Houston now and a NY'er before this one. I guess mine is what you would consider to be out of the box. I have never heard of FF's purposely heating their helmets. Just wait for the next really hot fire and your lid will take on a shape all its' own.

Permalink Reply by Cody on December 30, 2008 at 7:16pm

I just recently bought a brand new New Yorker, what is the best way to put a bronx bend in it. I've heard the oven, a hair dryer, a torch. I really dont want to mess it up so if someone could tell me the best way it would be appriciated

Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on January 5, 2009 at 2:49am

OK I will say this again, If the brim of your particular helmet is kinda flexible (has a little give to it, as in New... then I suppose using a low temp heat source, such as a hair dryer and gentle pressure might get some result.. after some time the leather tends to stiffen and even get much more brittle...and trying to force the leather to do anything Can result in damage to either paint or leather or both.. On one hand leather/cowhide is a natural product has a mind of its own, and will react diferanty each time you have an application, so each brim is differant and can or will age differantly... That being said take a look at my slideshow >>

Find more photos like this on Firefighter Nation
I would also suggest anyone interested check out the YOUtube of How they do that" the show of how the helmets are made... I have posted it in here and if youcan'tfind it, I also have it on my profile page, Its quite enlightening, and gets in to a little of whatthey use to harden theleather, as well as shape the brims, and also all the "special" paints theyuse with high tech low velocity applicators on the underside and high velocity appllication for the top...lol check em out

Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on January 23, 2009 at 10:45am

not in reality... when your overhauling/pulling ceilings or in those lovely instances when the ladder pipe overshoots at a surround n drown, the bend is more apt to direct H2O runoff down your collar rather then over your shoulders... Keep in mind, today we were hoods and all that but back in the day guys , might have been more apt to be less protected ,wearin no hood , no earflaps, collar may not have even been pulled up, so depending on how extreme the bend was bent. anything could end up down your collar ... from a radiant heat standpoint , It COULD have or maybe not have protected you better or less.... too.... The helmet is designed to have a slight downward curve which should direct water towards the back and onto your shoulders, remember thattheonly structural element to strengthen the brim which is "hangingway" off the back is the wire which dosent help more then a couple percent up and down but laterally... Leather being a natural product will soften/harden with heat and cold as well as chemical and other aspects , Think of your shoes , when the leathergets wet they get hard and crsuty and can dry out and get hard and crack same with a helmet , and your doing the helmet in all extremes all the time.. so a lot of"it has to do with Justhow the leather in your helmet drys , and what external forces
"Help" it along.. In my slideshow one pic shows how one side of one of myhelmets is bent up on the right corner , and this stems from placing the helmet beside the seat against the enginge box when Its stowed I am too tall to wear it while driving around , It happens the right rear is bent more because Ispenta lot more time in the right front seat then the left Front seat putting the stress on that side had ispent much time as chauffer, it would likely have been the left rear side,.. My point is this there are pros and cons to both aspects of how the leatherends up.. mostly 1) it is what it is 2) Its for some guys a signature, like the old time cowboys, would crease they're stetsons in all number of configurations, some practical some just plain stupid looking , if not impracticle... The hats were designed to keep the sun and rain off help protect your eyes in th days before shades , but old cowpokes still hadhard wrinkled faces crows feet and thats just a fact of life... lets face it the purtiest Stetson design (like the classic Roy Rogers style was all show, and pristein had he been riding the range , the first time it rained his felt stetson would have been down around his ears, and when it was dryed he'd have reshaped it by hand but it wouldn't be the same as brand new store bought shaped and steamed.... Like I said theonly advantage to doing a bronx bent was back when The 2.2 bottles were long and if you were crawling the bottle would hit the brim.. beyond that its "style" or trying to be "cool" not much else .. If you want to/ or feel a bend protects you better, feel free to say that But I suspect more water will go down your neck with then without..

Permalink Reply by Big Mike on January 23, 2009 at 2:41pm

So what's the story behind the manila rope on the helmet?

Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on January 23, 2009 at 7:02pm

I was in a good fire and didn't have my chinstrap on (heat of the moment and simply forgot) and my brim curled on both sides from the strap. It cooled off and the bend was permanent. The next time your in a hot fire once you come out try the "Bronx bend" on it. Maybe it didn't crack bc the helmet was heated as a whole. Personally I wouldnt try it on mine.I just wear mine out of the box what ever shape it takes i go with.
Good luck,Stay low Brother!

Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on January 24, 2009 at 10:12am

Well, Mike when I was The LT on my truck in my vollie days circa circa '78 or som Bail outs and rope rescue ("stuff") involved either tieing ya into a bowline on a bite style rescue knot in some Big manilla, OR using a ladder belt as a rappell device, I and members of my crew got interested in doing that stuff and making some aspects safer...for us.. I made contact with and did some at length discussions/research with a particular FDNY Rescue 1 Lieutenant about rope work and what we now call personal bail outs... The very idea (then) of stepping into a bite, and being able to slide a couple floors (in a pinch) That sorta stuff.. In 1980 a few of us took a basic Mountaineering rope rescue course out of state and returned with much better insight about just how unsafe the Fire service use of manilla was as well as historical tools and means usedin recovery and rescue of Climbers obviously in real bad locations.... etc etc.. The "endless" rope slice on my helmet is strickly a conversational aspect of that and my personal ability Being from a traditionally seafaring community one's Knowledge of knots both typical fire service, boating and rescue, as well as some used while driving a flatbed Lumber truck in those days to secure loads, I kinda became the go to knot instructor ... IN later years, after coming on the job and going house to house during our "rotations" ( as a boot azz) we knew one particular Captain who was known as a rope guy, He'd "beat" you with the ropes and knots stuff and 96% of the guys were at least not comfortable with all the knots while I was extremely confident, he'd ask you to tie a Bowline... and as long as you could it was good, when I taught MY guys, I Tryed to teach you so that you "could" tie it one handed , At night, in the smoke or if you were partly hurt, which was an something That The Rescue 1 Officer had instilled in me... (murphy's law stuff) sure in good conditions any truck guy can tie it , I want my guys to tie it one handed each hand and behind they're backs because you have to expect the worst case senerio... The Captain on my job walked in tossed us each a length of rope, tie this... tie that, when he got to the bowline, I , being a smartazz asked him if he wanted it left or right handed, he scoffed and began harping on the smart assed boot know it all... So, I said Ok Capt., I'll tie one in each hand at the same time as fast as you tie one of yours... he took the bet, and I beat him with my right hand and matched him with my left.. He looked atbothknots to be sure and studied the knots and told me one was not a bowline, and i told him check em again, One was right handed the second left handed so therefore Each Mirrored the other rather then being "the same", so after "besting him" at his own own game I tied a Tugboat bowline which is tied quite differantly and the snugging aspect of the bowline along with its ability tobe loosened easily is backwards with the tugboat bowline, so the loop will cinch easily like a lasso around a cleat or Piling (on a boat or dock) wont slip but is"fairly" wasy to remove and from the nautical sense was used on tugboats to secure barges or other vessles with limited manpower.. anyway, Making splices isnt a big fd activity other then replacing halyards on ladders or adding rope handles to cribbing but not many know the skills needed to do so so its a "badge", a conversation piece, and sorta hopfully can get the guys thinking a little outside box..

Permalink Reply by Chris Manion on February 14, 2009 at 2:25pm